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Northern House Martin 毛腳燕

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Dark-throated Thrush from Po Toi

Nothern House Martin at Lok Ma Chau

1500h, 19 Nov 2009

[[i] Last edited by Webcreeper at 28/11/2009 03:28 [/i]]

WOW !!!! 3551em015445

hello yyattung!
i have a question about the northern house martin and the asian house martin
how to identify them and what is the main characteristic?  
thank u very much

this pic was taken in Haifeng Guangdong yesterday.  i think it was an asian house martin, wasnt it?
[img]http://www.shwbs.org/swb/attachment/4_78_147a94dbcea438c.jpg[/img]

[[i] Last edited by xiaocao at 19/11/2009 21:30 [/i]]

Dear Xiaocao,

Your bird looks like a Northern House Martin to me because of large white rump, very clear white underparts and grey underwing coverts.

I am not very familiarise to this species because I still haven't seen it. Maybe other experts would come here later to give you more information.

Tung

thank u for replying my question
i have checked the CHINA BIRD REPORT. there is no record of the Northern in south China.  
and the Asian's records can explain the house martins' distribution in Guangdong better.

however, we mainland birder are very curious about why can't we record the Northern house martin as they breed in northern area and spend winter in southeast asia according to the wild guide to the birds of China


and, i think another characteristic to distinguish these two house martins is their tail forks.
here is another pic also taken in Haifeng
[img]http://www.shwbs.org/swb/attachment/4_78_9185a9784cef13d.jpg[/img]

u can see the fork of tail is very shallow, not deep like the Northern house martin according to the wild guide illustrated
so i want to know what the martin u saw looked like

thank u again!

As Tung mentioned, the features on Northern House Martin include a larger white rump (extending further onto the uppertail coverts), cleaner white underparts and a grey underwing.  It is also larger than Asian with a deeper tail fork. In contrast, Asian often looks tiny (smaller than Pale Martin) with a square-cut tail, strong greyish wash to the underparts, narrower white rump (often with dark steaking if seen well) and blackish underwing coverts.

The recent photos taken by John Holmes at Mai Po show Asian House Martin very well.
[url]http://www.hkbws.org.hk/BBS/redirect.php?tid=9527&goto=lastpost#lastpost[/url]

Note that some field guides show Northern to have a white underwing - this only applies to the european subspecies.  The eastern has a darker grey underwing, but this should not be as dark (blackish) as on Asian.

On this basis, I agree that the first photo posted by xiaocao shows a Northern House Martin (for the reasons given by Tung). The second photo looks like Asian House Martin to me.

On the basis of range, Northern House Martin should be expected to occur occasionally in South China, and has been predicted in the past as a likely addition to the Hong Kong list.

ajohn, thank u for ur answer to these two species, especially for the discription of the white wing undercover
there r 2 pics of the first martin what i think is a Northern house martin
and i think the width of the tail cover maybe a more accurate identifiable feature

[attach]4754[/attach][attach]4755[/attach]

Northern House Martin

Northern House Martin at Tsim Bei Tsui, 22 Nov 2009

Mike Chalmers has found a Northern House Martin over a fish-pond at Tsim Bei Tsui this morning.

Directions: go all the way to the end of the fence, where there's a watch-tower, and then follow the road which turns sharply right here. There are fish-ponds on the right. The bird was over the second fish-pond.


Web master. Is it possible to change the name of this thread to Northern House Martin. Thanks, Richard

One was also found at Lut Chau on last Friday (20nov) in a big swallows flock.
George