Tony

we saw a raptor which Carmen and I think it is a Japanese Sparrowhawk instead of Besra.
Can any expect confirm it?

I didn't take good photos on the back, but the dark tail bands are 2x narrower than the light one, no white rump,
vertical streak on breast to belly but horizontal band on flank.

[ Last edited by Tony at 19/10/2010 19:56 ]

Tony

no idea why I can't post more than 1 photo...

Tony

The third photo.

The lower one is taken by my friend C Wing.

[ Last edited by Tony at 17/10/2010 21:46 ]

Tony

The last one

lmunchong

Grey-faced Buzzard?

brendank

Could it be there are two birds? The first bird looks different from the bird in flight on account of the submustacial mark.  I vote for Grey-faced Buzzard on the first photo.

[ Last edited by brendank at 17/10/2010 22:20 ]

Tony

they are all the same bird.....

fatchun

In fact, this bird is quite small and even smaller than crested goshawk. So, I think I would eliminite some choices of big birds.
Its size is just larger than the chinese goshawk for me.

bond

grey-faced buzzard for me as well.

Tony

agree

John Holmes

I saw what I think is the same bird about half an hour later, near the helipad.

I agree with Grey-faced Buzzard, too.

(And I have learned that I'm hopeless at identifying birds on camera review screens !)

gary

Hi John,

It's also difficult to ID on computer screen. Never saw a Grey-faced Buzzard can have such bulge secondary whilst most of the photo guide ID the bird with a straight line from secondary to primary tip. It again suggests we need to ID bird on photo with care and a combination of features.
Your photo is helpful in letting us know how variable wing shape it could be.

Gary

Tony

Oops, it is a Grey faced Buzzard...
And more features to identify it?

ajohn

Why isn't it a juvenile Crested Goshawk?

brendank

My gut feeling is the bird perched is Grey-faced Buzzard but the bird John photographed is a Crested Goshawk.  With regard to John's bird it looks pretty much like a Crested Goshawk except for the fact it seems to have 5 rather than the expected 6 "fingers".  But it would seem that its shape is bit "atypical" to say the least for Grey-faced Buzzard but perfect for Crested Goshawk.

[ Last edited by brendank at 18/10/2010 14:13 ]

ajohn

Interesting. I think all of the pictures look like Crested Gos. I would be interested to know why majority opinion seems to be favouring Grey-faced Buzzard over the commoner Crested Goshawk.

It's clearly a relatively large, bulky raptor, with thick, strong legs. This rules out the smaller Accipiters (Besra, Japanese, Chinese, Eurasian). The legs are relatively long, however - longer than on pictures of Grey-faced. Also with long 'trousers'.
The underparts are fairly poorly marked and pale, with 'fluffy' undertail coverts. This is typical of a younger Crested Gos, but I would expect Grey-faced to be more marked below.
The head pattern has a hint of a supercilium, but not as obvious and pronounced as I would expect for a young Grey-faced.
The wings are relatively short and broad. Look especially at the primary projection and the length of the wing relative to the tail on the perched bird. Photos of Grey-faced show the wing and tail to be similar in length. In flight, this is reflected in the long, parallel-sided wings of Grey-faced, not shown on these photos.

Compare with these pitcures of Grey-faced to illustrate what I mean (I know these are taken in spring, but many of the features remain the same, especially structure)

http://www.hkbws.org.hk/BBS/view ... rey-faced%2BBuzzard
http://www.hkbws.org.hk/BBS/view ... rey-faced%2BBuzzard

HFCheung

I would go for Besra on John's photo.
Even in Juvenile plumage, Crested Goshawk clearly shows 6 fingers.

HF Cheung

tmichael

Is it absolutely certain there's only one bird here?

The first four shots seem to show a more powerful bird - Crested Goshawk very plausibly - while the final two seem to show a slighter bird or birds - Besra?

Of course, we know impressions of size etc in accipiters can be very unreliable.

Mike Turnbull

kkoel

The first bird looks a bit more like a Japanese Sparrowhawk to me. I agree totally with Mike that absolute size is difficult to judge - so I'll rely on more plumage clues. From photo 1, the primary projection seems long: at least at long as the overlying tertials; as Tony mentioned, the upper-tail pattern seems indeed to favour Japanese; also in photo 2 and 4, the wings look quite sharp and unlike the impression imparted by photo 3 - which was shot from a rather horizontal angle, making the wing look more roundish.

The second bird does look like a Besra to me - the prominent mesial stripe, thin tarsi shown very well in John's photo, and secondary bulge all seem to point away from Japanese/Crested.

Anyway, accipiters remain interesting as always...! =)

[ Last edited by kkoel at 18/10/2010 20:41 ]