ctakming

31 Oct 2014 Long Valley
Please kindly comment on the subspecies of this bird. Thanks in advance.

Jonathmartinez

this is leucopsis

lpaul

I think this is baicalensis on the basis of the extent and shape of the throat patch, the grey (rather than black) rump and the apparent dark centres to all the median and greater coverts.

ajohn

To me, this bird seems to have black lesser coverts, very extensively white median coverts and broad white fringes to the greater coverts, forming a white wing panel (although curiously this seem more the case on the left side than the right side). I agree that the rump is extensively grey, but to me it seems darker than the mantle. Many of the mantle feathers seem to have very dark centres.

If I had seen it, I would have concluded that this bird was leucopsis (and have done so for similar birds in the past).

Jonathmartinez

same as John, I've always eliminate baicalensis on the basis of the black spot on mantle and extensive black on lower scapulars and lesser coverts especially obvious on the pics showing the left side of the bird.
To me baicalensis should show an immaculate grey mantle including lower rump.
I think these birds are 1st winter female leucopsis.
I found breast batch very variable. I recently spent lot of time checking birds at a roost with about 500 wagtail in SW Guangdong and was abble to find a single baicalensis showing the feature described above, but many birds showing same feature as the bird shown in this topic.

Jonathmartinez

there is a nice pic of baicalensis on the below link, not many on the web...

ctakming

Many thanks for all sharing their ideas and experiences on this subject.
BTW, I find it difficult to have a clear view of the whole rump of wagtail most of the time. Could grey uppertail-converts, like those on this bird in the 1st photo, indicate the bird has a grey rump?

[ Last edited by ctakming at 8/11/2014 21:55 ]

lpaul

I agree that the black lesser coverts are not good for baicalensis.  However the greater and median coverts are all adult (even though on the basis of the tertial moult I would have thought this is a first-winter bird) and these clearly are all dark centered which they should not be for leucopsis.  I can see that this is not a perfect fit for baicalensis, but equally I don't agree that this is a perfect fit for leucopsis.