tomatofamily

Tomorrow is the AGM of HKBWS.  I am sorry that I cannot come as a member (A01548).  There are two matters passed in the previous AGM that need someone in the committee to clarify : 1) why the fee for elderly needs to be increased drastically (from HK$70 to HK$250); 2) why a staff left with HK$1,800,000.00， leaving our financial problem (I understand "employer can offset the LSP/SP  payable to employees under the Employment Ordinance agains the MPF derived from the employer's mandatory and voluntary contributions" https://www.mpfa.org.hk/en/mpf-s ... severance-payments.

Best regards

Eric
2023-10-24

[ Last edited by tomatofamily at 25/10/2023 12:17 ]

tomatofamily

Yeah, I would like to know anything discussed related to the above matters at the AGM held yesterday (25/10/2023).  Thanks in advance.

Best regards.

Eric

BWA

The questions were brought up at the AGM as AOB.  Below is the Chairman's response:

Q1
Subscription fees had to be increased because they could not cover the actual cost of membership activities.  Elderly people may consider joining the Crested Bulbul Club, which is free of charge.


Q2
$1.5 M was paid to 12 staff members who left the Office last year.  In addition, the Society had to pay for the salaries of new replacements during the transition period, when two persons are on the same position.

Being a good employer, the Society did not offset the Long Service Pay / Severance Pay with our MPF contribution, although the practice is allowed by the Employment Ordinance.

Alan Chan
Honorary Secretary
HKBWS

tomatofamily

Dear Alan CHAN, our Honary Secretary,

First of all, thank you for your reply.  However, I am quite puzzled when it was said "Being a good employer, the Society did not offset the Long Service Pay / Severance Pay with our MPF contribution, although the practice is allowed by the Employment Ordinance."  What that means that those employers using the system to offset the LSP/SP against MPF are bad employers!  You know, HKBWS is a non-profit NGO.  Those hard earned money the society has I believe are from the charity fund, and membership fees, and books sales.  If there is already a legal channel for LSP/SP, why have to use it although the society shows its appreciation to its leaving staff.  Think twice, we are NGO.

Best regards.

Eric

ps. It was "離職金 180 萬元" written on the last minutes (not $1.5 million).  why is there such a different in documentation?

[ Last edited by tomatofamily at 30/10/2023 15:16 ]

tomatofamily

Quote:

Original posted by BWA at 28/10/2023 09:52

The questions were brought up at the AGM as AOB.  Below is the Chairman's response:

Q1
Subscription fees had to be increased because they could not cover the actual cost of membership activities.  E ...

Yes, regarding this question 1, I did not object the increase of the fee. Every daily life expenses nowadays have been increased to certain amount somehow.  But I objected the drastic increase only for the elderly membership.  What is the actual cost of membership activities involved, which I or every members would like to know.  And the chairman's suggestion to joining the Crested Bulbul Club is kind of ridiculous; these are totally different groups.  Would the members of Crested Bulbul Club are entitled to the Mai Po Marshes Entry Permit issued  by HKAFCD?  Some elderly like doing bird watching by their own without other around.  Again the drastic increase of membership fee for elderly is not acceptable.  I hope the committee members could hold the fort properly.  By the way, is there any way to see the financial report; it should have been given to members before the AGM.

Best regards.

Eric

[ Last edited by tomatofamily at 30/10/2023 18:12 ]

HKBWS Tung

Below is a further response from the Chairman.

Besides the cost of membership activities having gone up as mentioned in my previous reply, the number of elderly members doubled in four years’ time while our full-rate members remained more or less the same. A restructuring of the membership discount is needed for the sustainability of our membership development. At both the Executive Committee meeting and the AGM of 2022, it was decided that to move Elderly members to the same tier as the Adult Student members, which still have a discount of 50% off from a full rate member.

The 1.8 million expenditure (as mentioned in the 2022 AGM) included not only the benefit paid when staff left the Society but also the staff cost caused by staff turnover. Total salaries and benefits for resigned staff is around 1.5 million (as mentioned in the 2023 AGM), with around HK$180k related to payment for their unused annual leave and bonus. Due to their resignation, the Society also paid additional salaries of around 0.3 million during transition period. No staff was entitled to the Long Service Payment or Severance Payment under the Employment Ordinance, so the offsetting scheme is not applicable.

2021-2022 is an abnormal year for HKBWS, with the departure of 12 staff (including senior management staff) which accounts for 50% of the office manpower. This high staff turnover has contributed to the deficit in 2021-22 but was not the sole cause of the deficit. We consider that this was an unusual case and similar unfortunate incident should not happen again in the future.

In the past year we have tried our best to maintain a healthy finance and you are welcome to take a look at the financial summary of 2022-23, which is already sent to all members along with the AGM notice and agenda before the AGM.

Apache Lau
HKBWS Chairman

tomatofamily

Quote:

Original posted by HKBWS Tung at 9/11/2023 17:10
Below is a further response from the Chairman.

Besides the cost of membership activities having gone up as mentioned in my previous reply, the number of elderly members doubled in four years’ time w ...

Dear Mr. Lau, the Chairman of HKBWS,

Thanks for your detailed reply.  However, your reply has not resolved my doubts about how the monies were spent on the staff left the Society.  And the previous reply by the Honorary Secretary was not professional at all when he/she said, "Being a good employer, the Society did not offset the Long Service Pay / Severance Pay with our MPF contribution, although the practice is allowed by the Employment Ordinance." And now you said another version.  We definitely need to know how those staff left the Society, either by termination or resignation on his/her own will.  The treatments of the monies used surely were different.  And I read the summary version of the financial report; however, the auditor's report, which was supposed to be sent to each member before the AGM along with the summary, is what I want to read too.

Best regards.

Eric
2023.11.15

tomatofamily

To other members:

I realised that what I have used "we" from time to time in my messages regarding this matter is not prudent enough because I cannot stand for other members.  Please forgive me for this.  However, as an individual member in the Society, he/she has right to get clear picture of what has been done concerning.

Best regards.

Eric

mchristine

I realised that what I have used "we" from time to time in my messages regarding this matter is not prudent enough because I cannot stand for other members.  Please forgive me for t ... [/quote]

I have been waiting for the reply from HKBWS to Eric's very sensible question yet I was surprised to see NO response in 3 months.  There was also a big question mark lingering in my mind like Eric.  The payout of HKD1.5/1.8 million is a LSV payout or a severence payout?  If it is a LSV payout and HKBWS is in a very sound financial situation, we can afford to act as a super generous employer by not performing the then MPF offsetting practice.  If it is a severence  payout, it is totally a human resource worst practice to be such  a "insensible generous" employer.

It was a good and reasonable general practice to provide financial report to all members before AGM.  Why this good practice was not sustained to engage members' participation in AGM matters?

I believe all senior age members would not like to bear the burden of having have to suffer from drastic increase in membership fee as a consequence of bad human resource practice.  One dollar can mean a lot to retired elderly who have no job income.

Looking forward to hearing response from HKBWS with related financial reports enclosed.  Root cause of problem has to be uncovered with the best wishes that the same mistake will not be committed twice.  It is of utmost importance for the healthy development of HKBWS, an NGO which is obliged to observe its financial status  prudently.

[ Last edited by mchristine at 8/03/2024 17:06 ]

HFCheung

I like to know how the leave/retirement payment was calculated.  Is there a formula for that?  Is it based on the formula that I proposed just before I stepped down as chairman?  Is it possible to tell members how much each staff got when he/she left in recent years?  A meeting with members can be arranged to clarify all these.

HFCheung

这几年有和会员公开讨论鸟会的发展方向与策略吗？

如果没有，我想建议顺便开个鸟会发展与策略研讨会，召集会员共同商议；

鸟会会员都很有能力，是鸟会的主要支撑力量，依靠会员是必须的。

HFCheung

果然没有回应，和预想的一样，大家都很忙。