eling

Shame to witness somebody dressed like a wildlife photographer using a very strong flash on the crested grebe in Tsim Bei Tsui today.  

He was so close to the crested grebe and i can see no reason why he needed to flash again & again, more than 10 times, on this bird.  The next scene was the bird was so scared that it dived into the water & I did not see it again.  

I recognised this was the same person I met in early Jan 07 in Long Valley when he was suddenly shouting to his friend and doing some awkward gesture trying to scare the Bluethroat away from the field when he noticed that I was approaching.  Obviously he was stupidly trying to scare the Bluethroat away so that nobody can take any pictures.  I can see no reason why for doing such destructive behaviour other than selfish and irresponsible motives.




今日係尖鼻咀見到個自私自利嘅男人對住隻鳳頭鸊鷉狂閃，足足閃咗10幾吓，係近距離果隻，終於嚇到隻鳳頭鸊鷉潛咗入水，跟住就失踪咗。其他靜靜地等隻雀游過黎嘅人結果眼白白咁睇住隻雀被嚇走咗。

後來睇真D呢個人個樣，赫然發覺此人正是我今年1月初在塱原見過佢，當時佢見我逐漸走近隻藍點頦嘅所在地，佢突然同個朋友大叫及做出大動作，意圖嚇走隻雀，令到其他人睇唔到影唔到，此人的劣行實在令人齒冷。希望有人如果認識呢個人，話比佢聽唔好再做D損人不利己嘅野。

cjacky

冇貢獻, 只會從中得益. 算. 仲要搞破壞 ! 唔知呢d係mud 心態....

wsimon

我個人認為觀鳥活動漸漸變得不單純是欣賞、科研活動
近年，隨着數碼相機的盛行，還加入了 “攝影”的元素
拍鳥的人不斷地以倍數增加
有個別朋友會以不斷拍到新品種和 “近爆鏡” 為傲(可以是內心的)
在光線不足的日子和地點，便有強閃光以加快快門速度和環境光度把 “目標鳥”留住
不久以前，也有曾經討論過用閃光燈來拍鳥對雀鳥的影響
雖然，閃光可能對雀鳥不會有長期的影響
但是在過程中可能令其他人或雀鳥造成干擾
其實自然光也可以拍出很好的照片吧
惡性循環…從此以後在野外拍鳥就似室內傳媒招待會一樣 “閃光不斷”
說不定…下次可能有朋友會把拍攝地點變成拍電影場地…強光燈、大反光板…等等

我不太懂拍鳥，也拍不到好的照片，但認同這是一種不理想的行為
純粹從心出發，分享一下感受，絕無任何針對的意思
各位在享受生活、感受過程的同時，多加留意了~

ckacheung

GOOD CAPTURE..
I THINK YOU SHOULD TAKE PHOTO OF THE GUY CLEARLY.
LET US KNOW WHO HE IS

tbob

[quote:8bba68429d="ckacheung"]GOOD CAPTURE..
I THINK YOU SHOULD TAKE PHOTO OF THE GUY CLEARLY.
LET US KNOW WHO HE IS[/quote]

The photo that was shown on the web is the correct way to publish any shot where you feel that the photographer is disturbing the birds.

By publishing a clear photo of the photographers face and accusing him of doing something, is leaving you and the society open for legal action.

Any photos showing the face of the photographer should be sent to the relevant government department and not published on the BBS

ckacheung

Bob

good point,

cwchan

It was on the occasion of Tsim Bei Tsui Outing (21.1.2007 pm).  We saw this gentleman leaving the scene when we members arrived the scene. All of us were very disappointed that  we missed the chance to see the crested grebe. So far to my memory, I saw this gentelment in Nov or Dec. 2006 at Nam Sang Wai doing the same thing. I hope anyone know him should discuss with him in repect of this issue---We should respect their natural live without causing any disturbance to them. As an amateur photographer myself,   I see no reason why flash was used in taking nature photography, apart from the fact that flash will scare those timorous creature, flash lighting is not good---flat, plain and absence of 3D.

Photo showing his clear face is not appropriate here in my opinion.

Wing
FRPS

tmichael

It's part of a rather worrying recent trend - what seem to be completely non-naturalist photographers just out looking for novel 'subjects', often going around in packs (with no binoculars, of course), and being quite noisy a lot of the time. I've seen them recently in TPK and at Long Valley.

It's difficult to imagine these types would ever consider the bird's welfare, just getting their shot - plus, apparently stopping others getting theirs!

We sadly may need to be careful about disclosing locations of rare and interesting birds on this Forum and to be ready to intervene, politely of course, if we see unacceptable behaviour.

Let's hope such incidents remain rare.

Mike Turnbull

eling

Sorry that i couldn't stop this man from repeatedly flashing the bird  because i distanced myself from the bird and the man hoping not to cause any disturbance to anyone.  I know what to do next time.   

And it is very sorry to see the disappointed faces of the HKBWS's outing group.

hmartin

With due respect to Wing, fill flash is used by many accomplished wildlife photographers to "warm up" an image in dull, flat lighting conditions, such as those depicted in the image above, or to balance lighting when the subject is side or back lit. I have used flash often in such situations and I have NEVER, to my knowledge, had a bird flush purely because of the use of flash. Let's face it, if birds flushed everytime a photographer used flash he'd very quickly learn to stop using it (or learn to make the first shot count). The use of flash seems to be becoming a very emmotive subject, but I think it's much less of a problem than it's perceived to be. I'm not defending the particular photographer concerned, who should be easily identifiable by his use of an offset flash gun (I've only seen one "bird photographer" with this set up in Hong Kong), and his overall photography and fieldcraft technique may well have spooked the Grebe, but I do want the use of flash to be seen in perspective.

However the problem of ever increasing numbers of photographers, who find it fashionable to photograph birds, but otherwise have no particular interest in their welfare, is one that needs addressing. After myself witnessing an incident in one of the boardwalk hides, in which a well known photographer appeared to flush waders deliberately in order to get flight photographs, I proposed a photographers code of conduct to HKBWS, WWF and AFCD. Lew Young was very supportive, but surprisingly HKBWS and AFCD were not, and the matter was dropped.

Until such a code of conduct is in place, with appropriate "incentives" for photographers, and birders for that matter, to comply, I would agree that finders of rarities may need to be circumspect in releasing full site details to non-HKBWS members.

Martin Hale

深藍-Owen

Martin,

Hv to tell I use flash for bird photo long before but similar case after I seen a famous bird photogher use flash and the bird keep flushing around I tell myself stop using flash for bird photo anymore.

Before the launch of this "new" forum I propose to restrict some forum like birding report for HKBWS members only but finally the idea is not use not because of the idea itselfs just because it's too easy to be a member of HKBWS : Paid the fee then you are the member, and some people think it's purely the entrance fee of Mai Po Reserve.

We can't judge who can or cannot be a member of HKBWS but I agree to others please be careful to release the birding site detail in this forum.  May try to use PM (private message) function to share some sensitive info with others.

Owen

cbryan

i'm a newbie to this forum as well as to birding yet an photography enthusiast.  i was there yesterday and would like to share a few points from a newbie's perspective.

have to agree with martin that the use of fill flash is a common practice to supplement what nature cannot provide for, but IMO, to satisfy our insatiable desire for photographic spectacle.  the question of whether flash should be used is a difficult one and there'd be no point of arguing.

personally i restrain from using it.  most important of all in order to keep disturbance to wildlife to a minimum.  but apart from that i've learnt to accept what nature provides for.  when it's a dark and hazy day that keep my shutter slow then it is and i have to accept that and to resort to using faster lens and the use of filters.  and if even that doesn't work, it's simply just not my day.  of course the resulting pics would be far from satisfactory.  but it also becomes incentives for me to go back on another day when the conditions allow me to shoot better.  i guess the fun of birding and wildlife photography lies in that u never know what u're gonna get.  a bright, warm looking pic freezing a bird in its motion is far more rewarding when it's taken after a number of frustrating visits and attempts.

the advance in photographic equipment has made many (almost any)amateurs like us capable of getting super-tele of birds like what we see in birds directory but i believe the true fun of birding and bird photography lies in being able to capture them and their surrounding in the most faithful way and also in the process of hiking through the countryside and the tranquil hours waiting, rather than the end-products.

eling shouldn't take the blame not having stop the man.  u've already taken the right action by pointing him out.  just wanna let u know the crested grebe could be lost but i'm not the least disappointed.  i'm hoping for the day when it's lost and found.

tmichael

I agree - don't challenge anyone if they seem potentially aggressive, but otherwise try to educate them in field craft (and indirectly, in birding ethics) if they clearly are causing a bird stress, and generally behaving in a selfish way eg disturbing birds to get flight shots.

Concerning "suppression" of bird locations, I had in mind things like owls at or near the nest and other rare breeding birds (we can all think of a recent example,  I'm sure).

News would I hope be spread between genuine birders/responsible photographers by more traditional word-of-mouth means.

Also, while there are some ethical issues about flash use, I wouldn't want any code to ban it - look at the excellent opportunity to look closely at images of forest birds which it has given us in HK.

Mike Turnbull

cfrankie

I am the guy who sit silently on the other side of the pond with a camera that day.  I am not trying to protect any one in this incident but speak out the truth after reading your “report”.  I did not know that guy and I didn't know his photography habit but I want to confirm that the bird ran away ( or dived away) not because of the flash you mentioned.  When I arrived the pond, that guy has started to shoot. As a matter of fact, the bird saw both of you arrived at the pond and turned closer to that guy’s direction.  At the same time, the bird also noticed the big group of bird watchers approaching the pond and the bird turned to our direction.  Unfortunately there were some cyclers (about 4 to 5) walked pass our side with their bicycles.  Because of so many people appeared suddenly and I believed the bird would disappear very soon.  The bird did dive away and disappeared finally.  I wasted few hours and didn't get a shot.  About 30 minutes later, I left but there were still 7 to 8 bird watchers coming to the pond direction.  
I met that guy when I left the pond.  We exchanged names.  I really think this guy is lucky because I was there and witnessed the whole incident otherwise, he would be blamed guilty……………………………

p.s. I saw both of you went upon this guy and talked with him and I thought you were friend.


小弟就在你對面静静等果位’’’E張相你是未轉彎以影的.?...’’’我睇完這篇報道後.不是平反.我只想毫無保留地說出真相.....:.隻鳥不是因閃燈而走..雖然我唔識佢...也不知佢平時什樣拍攝手法..但我來時!佢以拍攝中..其實...隻雀是比你們走過來時趕佢游向閃燈人.跟着雀又發現閃燈人.....向左面游..好不幸地左面又有十幾位鳥團人仕從遠處做成人牆...大面積人牆它什不發覺..跟着.....又將雀趕向我方向..不幸事再出現..正它游向我方向時..又有四五名推單車的青年在我後面輕過..當時心想隻雀走硬..而同時我今天就白待幾粒鍾.結果它潛水走左..再待半小時我也走..走時還重有七八位人來....走時揰到閃燈人...我還同佢談話.互問名字..今次佢好彩我在現場...唔係佢水洗都唔清..

註: 我當日見到你跑到閃燈人那邊跟他談話, 還以為你地係朋友.

eling

sorry frankie, i thought you've got the timing wrongly.  we approached the pond slowly and stopped intermittently when we got into the vicinity of the pond in question.  we were long away from the bird because we saw this man photographing the bird.  

if you DID really notice us instead of focusing on the bird through your lens, we were sat behind the short grass and tried to hide ourselves.  IT WAS THEN the bird swan to the corner (swam towards our side) and performed magical dance happily.  we were able to see the bird swimming happily, through our binoculars, for a few minutes on that corner.  THROUGHOUT THE WHILE PERIOD, WE DIDN'T MOVE AT ALL.  Then the bird swam closer to the man in question and this guy started flashing over and over again.  At first, he was hiding from the short grass and when the bird got closer to him, he stood up and tried to get a better angle.  IT WAS AFTER a series of flashes the bird disappeared.  We watched from a distance and couldn't find the bird, THEN I GOT UP and went to the direction of that man and asked him where is the bird.  He blithely told me "I don't know, it should be there" and pointed his finger to the next pond.  He left the scene.  

Regarding your information about the bird was scared by the  large group of people (the HKBWS's outing group) as they were approaching to this pond.  I must say that the whole group was still walkiing TWO ponds away from this one.   They were more than 200 meters away from this pond.

I put up this matter in this forum not because i couldn't take the photo of this bird but i was furious that this man flashing over and over again on it and the flash, from my standard, is VERY STRONG.  Imagine if somebody flashing on you over and over again, could you barely open your eyes?   Just think.  I'm not sure if the bird could stand it.  I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS ANY BAD IMPACT ON THE BIRD & IT SHOULD BE LEFT WITH THE EXPERT.  

PS: the picture I've posted here is cropped.  I was using my 300mm lens to take this picture.   I just want everybody know how far I was away from the bird.

manthony

[quote:1396963d6c="cfrankie"]I am the guy who sit silently on the other side of the pond with a camera that day.  I am not trying to protect any one in this incident but speak out the truth after reading your “report”.  I did not know that guy and I didn't know his photography habit but I want to confirm that the bird ran away ( or dived away) not because of the flash you mentioned.  When I arrived the pond, that guy has started to shoot. As a matter of fact, the bird saw both of you arrived at the pond and turned closer to that guy’s direction.  At the same time, the bird also noticed the big group of bird watchers approaching the pond and the bird turned to our direction.  Unfortunately there were some cyclers (about 4 to 5) walked pass our side with their bicycles.  Because of so many people appeared suddenly and I believed the bird would disappear very soon.  The bird did dive away and disappeared finally.  I wasted few hours and didn't get a shot.  About 30 minutes later, I left but there were still 7 to 8 bird watchers coming to the pond direction.  
I met that guy when I left the pond.  We exchanged names.  I really think this guy is lucky because I was there and witnessed the whole incident otherwise, he would be blamed guilty……………………………

p.s. I saw both of you went upon this guy and talked with him and I thought you were friend.


小弟就在你對面静静等果位’’’E張相你是未轉彎以影的.?...’’’我睇完這篇報道後.不是平反.我只想毫無保留地說出真相.....:.隻鳥不是因閃燈而走..雖然我唔識佢...也不知佢平時什樣拍攝手法..但我來時!佢以拍攝中..其實...隻雀是比你們走過來時趕佢游向閃燈人.跟着雀又發現閃燈人.....向左面游..好不幸地左面又有十幾位鳥團人仕從遠處做成人牆...大面積人牆它什不發覺..跟着.....又將雀趕向我方向..不幸事再出現..正它游向我方向時..又有四五名推單車的青年在我後面輕過..當時心想隻雀走硬..而同時我今天就白待幾粒鍾.結果它潛水走左..再待半小時我也走..走時還重有七八位人來....走時揰到閃燈人...我還同佢談話.互問名字..今次佢好彩我在現場...唔係佢水洗都唔清..

註: 我當日見到你跑到閃燈人那邊跟他談話, 還以為你地係朋友.[/quote]

I second Frankie's report.  I was with Frankie and I sit next to him the whole morning at one side of the pond.  We both witnessed the whole incident happened.

eling

If I remembered correctly, there were two cars driven onto the area of the ponds.  Your car (the one in pink colour?) stopped about 3 ponds away from the pond in question.  I did see both of you loaded your gears from your car and was looking for the bird in other ponds.  

Both of you did stay on the other pond for a few minutes and it was later you went to the pond in question (probably you noticed somebody was there).  You then set up your gear on that pond but on the other corner.  You were about there for about 5 miinutes then we entered into the vicinity of the pond.  The rest of the story I'm not sure if you've got the time and everything correctly.  

If the bird was really driven away by us, how could we see it dancing happily on our side for a few minutes?  

You said you had wasted the whole morning there, that's I do not know.  AS FAR AS I CAN SEE, from the time you loaded your gears from your car and approached the pond in question and afterall you left the scene with your car.  It was no more than 30 minutes.  

Probably you may not know we were watching from a distance !

fjames

I was with the big group of people of the outing that day, when we arrived the pond we saw that guy leaving the site. I am not sure who scared the bird away because of the big group of people or the continue flashes, however none of us from the group can see the bird, quite certain the bird disappeared before we arrived.

I am sure a lot of us were disappointed and might blame on someone scared the bird away. To be honest, it is nature, the bird may ever come to HK, even if the bird is local resident still not necessary to be seen.

Anyway, the day was dull with light rain, it would be very hard for a good photo if flash is not use. If I want a good photo I would certainly need a VERY powerful flash since the weather is so dull and the distance is too far. However, I would justify is a good picture more important then the nature life? It is very certain in such environment the flash will cause a great shock to any animals, what happen to a dozen of continue flashes??

To see or taking photos of the bird is great, but disturbance or even causing shock to the bird to satisfy our own desire, is the action worth doing so?? I think most of us the bird watchers will prefer natural peace environment and not to disturb the wildlife, by doing so our countryside can be more enjoyable and fuller variety. So I think the action of powerful continue flashes is just purely for a selfish pleasure.

James