Ronaldo

Hi,

Can anyone confirm if this is a Temminck's Stint please? Thanks a lot in advance

Ronaldo

any help on this one please?

ajohn

It's not a Temminck's Stint, based on structure and the blackish legs.

It looks to me like it may be a Little Stint, but not easy on this one photograph. Do you have more photos?

brendank

Can I ask what about the structure eliminates Temminck's Stint? Is it bill shape? The dark leg color could just be mud.

ajohn

It's difficult to work out exactly why, but it really doesn't look structurally right for Temminck's. I think it's because the body looks too dumpy/rounded (not elongated), the head is too small and rounded, the bird is too upright (Temminck's usually stands more horizontally), the bill is perhaps not sufficiently downcurved and the eye is positioned too far forward.

For comparison, the closest picture of Temmincks (in terms of angle) I can find is:
http://orientalbirdimages.org/se ... _ID=&pagesize=1

I was aware of the risk that mud can lead to a misjudgement of leg colour for stints, but this looks to actually have dark legs - the whole of the right leg looks dark, but the feather immediately above are not stained). I also think that the plumage doesn't really fit for Temminck's (even breeding plumage) and it would be unusual to see one wading this deep into mud (they are usually on drier mud - drained fishponds or low tide at the new boardwalk hide). Also, it is now getting fairly late for Temminck's in HK.

Stints can be very difficult to ID. I'm not sure about which species this is (which is why I asked if there were more photos). But based on these photos I personally think that this bird is unlikely to be Temminck's.

brendank

Thanks, your assessment is very reasonable. I won't venture a guess for this bird.

[ Last edited by brendank at 13/04/2011 18:17 ]

Ronaldo

I will send a few more a bit later... Unfortunately still at work... I am not sure however that I have much better pictures.

Ronaldo

here is a second picture, cropped and with contrast enhanced... Not sure if that helps, but that's my last of that bird...

thinfor

The white throat seemed more prominent after increasing the contrast.  Any other diagnostic features apart from the throat color for confirming the ID to be little stint?  Any opinions from other experienced birders?

ajohn

The white throat is often quoted as the important feature for Little Stint, but I think this needs to be used carefully because it is only really valid when a bird is in full (or almost full) breeding plumage. Remember that Red-necked Stint also has a white throat in non-breeding plumage, and moulting birds may retain extensive white on the throat.

Structure is the most useful feature for separating the two species - Little Stint tends to have longer legs and a longer bill which narrows towards the tip. Little also typically stands a little bit more upright, with the head held above the line of the body. Red-necked tends to stand horizontally, with the head often held lower, level with the body. Feeding action is also often different - Red-necked shuffles along probing frequently but Little tends to be more active and picks at the surface less frequently. These features need to be used carefully, though.

I still think this bird looks more like Little. The head is held fairly high, and the bill tapers to a narrow tip. I'm still not 100% sure on the ID of this bird, though.

BIJ

Definitely not a Temminck's for all th reasons stated above not least Temminck's has yellow legs but the profile is also wrong. Temminck's tends to ne greyer with a ping-pong ball shaped head and always has a dumpy short-legged appearance. The legs are too long. This bird looks like a Little Stint to me.I agree about the white throat being a misleading diagnostic.This only applies in full breeding plumage.Your bird has a lightly longer tarsus and beak both characteristics of Little Stint in comparison with Rufous-necked stint.

Ronaldo

Thanks a lot for your help. I ruled out Red-necked Stint on the field.
Was not clear for the other features and not familiar enough with the waders to identify them all...

EricB

I read and look at all these Stint pictures with interest.  I think there are some important take home messages from these pictures.

1. In the identification of Little and Red necked ageing the individual will help. Digital manipulation has transformed a rather cold grey plumaged bird to one with warm brown tones! Effectively moving a bird from largely winter plumage to largely summer plumage!

2.As you know, Non breeding adults LS/RNS are virtually identical except for the slightly longer wings and slightly shorter legs producing a relatively more elongated appearance in RNS. The only unique winter plumage feature of Little Stint is that some individuals have a complete grey-brown breast band ; this is said to always be incomplete in non breeding RNS. (In addition, in LS the lores are often a 'dark loral spot' separated from the eye, in RNS it is often the darkest part of the face and extends through the eye – but I suspect this is a generalisation). The juvenile and summer plumaged birds are more likely to be identifiable.

3.There is another species, which can be confused with  Little and Red necked Stint.  Although never recorded in Hong Kong, it should be considered in any ‘unusual stint’ - namely Semi-Palmated Sandpiper.

4.The bird really looks dumpy/pot bellied but I am cautious about reading too much into the ‘jizz’ of a single photo at an unfavourable angle.
Does Ronaldo think this is an artifact or did it look like this in the field?

5.Do you have any notes or drawings of the primary projection in relation to the tertials and tail. Although digital images often gives irrefutable evidence and captures things in a split second that would take much longer in the field to observe, in some situations, particularly if it is nearly impossible to get a decent image, it may be your only useful tool.

6.The identification of Temminck’s Stint should be relatively straightforward. As mentioned previously the leg colour is helpful if they aren’t darkened with mud.
White outer tail feathers clinch the identification.
Structural features of note include the long tail for a stint, resulting in the wing tips usually falling short of the tail (but not always!)


eRic

[ Last edited by RUWright at 19/04/2011 05:27 ]

Ronaldo

Thanks for the added info.
I ruled out the Red-necked Stint, as the bill looked a bit too long. However, not sure if the legs were muddy or really dark. The weather was quite covered, and I feel the plumage was slightly more brownish than in the first picture shown.