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Subject: Ogilviegranti Leaf Warbler [Print This Page]

Author: cthomas Time: 12/12/2012 20:56 Subject: Ogilviegranti Leaf Warbler

12/12/12
Kadoorie Farm 嘉道理農場
Hasselblad CFE350mm + APO1.4XE + APO1.4XE + 7D
ISO320 f11 1/25s, 1/40s

[ Last edited by cthomas at 2/01/2013 08:49 ]

Author: 9Wi Time: 13/12/2012 10:22

Good find.

Author: Jonathmartinez Time: 31/12/2012 18:18

I've just saw this post.
To me this bird is a very good candidat for Ogilviegranti Leaf Warbler rather than one of the Blyth complex. It is definitly not a Claudia's Leaf Warbler, and the only other species it could be is Hartert's Leaf Warbler ssp fokiensis, but this bird looks very tiny with a thin bill and quite strong legs.
The amount of yellow on the super, the median crown stripe, the wingbar and undertail covert, as well as the dark eyestripe and lower crown black stripes favor Ogilviegranti to me. I have a good set of pictures of this species made in Guangxi that I will try to publish soon.
This is a species that still not in the HK list and that is breeding as close as North Guangdong or Fujian.
A recording of its call should help easily to separate it from Claudia's or Hartert's Leaf Warbler.

All the best,

Jonathan

Author: cthomas Time: 31/12/2012 23:44

Quote:

Original posted by Jonathmartinez at 31/12/2012 18:18
I've just saw this post.
To me this bird is a very good candidat for Ogilviegranti Leaf Warbler rather than one of the Blyth complex. It is definitly not a Claudia's Leaf Warbler, and the only other ...

Dear Jonathan,

Thanks for your identification!
I wanted to know Ogilviegranti Leaf Warbler same as Kloss's Leaf Warbler (Phylloscopus davisoni ogilviegranti) which can be found in Web.

Thomas.

Author: Jonathmartinez Time: 1/01/2013 12:30

Dear Thomas,

Well, I would said it is a suggestion rather than an identification, and I think it require a better analysis of the different feature to valid this, plumage of Ogilviegranti and other species it could confuse with, being poorly described.
The most conservative issue to validate this species on the HK list would be to have voice recording. This is a species quite vocale so it should be possible, the call is very diagnostic on sonogram.

I will try to soon post my set of pictures of Ogilviegranti, in case it can help.

Yes, Ogilviegranti's Leaf Warbler is same as Kloss's Leaf Warbler, but the first name is for several reason more appropriate than the second one.

All the best and happy new year.

Jonathan

Author: Jonathmartinez Time: 1/01/2013 21:57

Well I've spend quite a lot fo time today comparing the bird from Kadorie Farm with the pictures of a bird I've made in center Guangxi this summer from a population that I have safely ID by comparing their song and call with available published one, as well as looking on the available picture on the net of Emei Leaf Warbler and Godson's Leaf Warbler (fokiensis).
Rather difficult to ID this Guangxi birds at subspecies level, since I'm lacking information about how to separate disturbans breeding in Yunnan from ogilviegranti breeding presumably in Guangdong, and haven't been abble to find any information mentionning one or the other breeding in Guangxi. Anyway both belong to Ogilviegranti or Kloss's Leaf Warbler (same sp but I prefer the first name) recently split from White-tailed Leaf Warbler Phylloscopus davisoni.

I summaryse below what I think are good feature to ID Ogilviegranti LW or feature that have to be noted to eliminate other species. I'm happy to be corrected and to read comments from others. BTW THOMAS, I suggest you that you submit your sighting to the Record Commitee.

- coronal stripe :
1/ ending well beyond the bill (leaving a large area of olive green on the forehead)
2/ more accentuated at the rear crown (being more pale yellow at the rear crown and becomes more pale green where it reach the forehead), to ending blurry

-dark bands on each side of the coronal stripe
1/ much darker on rear crown and degrading into olive green as reaching the forehead, color near the forehead of similar color than mantle
2/ the blackish dark band on the rear crown is of similar color on its entire width, contrasting obviously with the olive green on forehead

- eyestripe : very dark and contrasting well with the ear covert. Very broad beyond the eye, very thin in front of.

- eyering : very pronounced and broad lower half eyering, always pale yellow. To me it isn't so broad on other Claudia LW, Emei LW or Godson LW.

- Super: quite broad, pale yellowish with a greenish nuance (from very close view) above the eye, more pale on rear and blurry pale grey near the bill (more accentuated color difference with the part of the super above eye comparing with rear and front part than in other species)

- ear coverts : grey greenish contrasting with paler of-white throat, and descending on neck side.

- underparts : uniform of-white to pale grey, with trace of yellow on undertail coverts

- mantle : quite dark green, and less contrasting color with the primaries than in other species ( other species show always more vivid primaries compare to mantle)

- wing bar : of similar color than super (pale yellowish)

- feet : I think there is clearly something with feet color, being quite pinkish grey, where I found Claudia's LW a bit more yellowish, this is more obvious on toes.

- structure : I found Ogilviegranti LW, quite tiny not so heavy build as Claudia's LW or Godson's LW , but with very strong leg, shorter and thicker bill.

To me the bird from Kadoorie Farm show a lot of this features, it is a bit darker grey on underparts than my expectations, but this maybe due to light conditions and of importance, it is very uniform on underpart where Claudia's LW and Emei LW show some contrast between breast and belly.

Pictures of Ogilviegranti LW from Guangxi can be seen here : http://www.tragopan-asie.com/en/ ... egranti-presumably/
Pictures of Claudia's Leaf Warbler can be seen here : http://www.tragopan-asie.com/en/ ... lloscopus-claudiae/
Emei Leaf Warbler here : http://orientalbirdimages.org/se ... _ID=&pagesize=1
The only picture of Godson LW fokiensis I refer too ( from breeding ground) : is this one : http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_ID=2916 and this one : http://worldbirds.eu/abch/harterts_leafwarbler.htm

And one precision, I haven't drink too much yesterday night:-)

All the best,

Jonathan

Author: cthomas Time: 2/01/2013 08:46

Dear Jonathan,

  Thanks for your detail descriptions in identification of the Warbler!

  Happy new year!

Thomas.

Author: lpaul Time: 2/01/2013 09:04

Thomas,

One question, did this bird spend much time foraging on the brances and trunks of tress (as shown in the second image)?

Author: Jonathmartinez Time: 2/01/2013 10:25

below the link to an old post of a bird quite similar to the one from Kadoorie Farm Garden.

http://www.hkbws.org.hk/BBS/view ... ight=leaf%2Bwarbler

Author: cthomas Time: 2/01/2013 11:48

Quote:

Original posted by lpaul at 2/01/2013 09:04
Thomas,

One question, did this bird spend much time foraging on the brances and trunks of tress (as shown in the second image)?

Dear Pual,

  Yes, this bird spend more time foraging on the branches and trunks of tress. Its movement seems slower than Yellow-Browed Warbler.
  The 2nd photo was my first time meet it. It might forage on the trees in front of me for 1-2mins. Then, it was disappear for some mins.
  Suddenly, I heard a louder(not like normal Warblers' sound) sound on a tree which 20-30m far away from me.
  I found its again and took 1st photo.

Thomas.

Author: cthomas Time: 2/01/2013 12:51

Quote:

Original posted by Jonathmartinez at 2/01/2013 10:25
below the link to an old post of a bird quite similar to the one from Kadoorie Farm Garden.

http://www.hkbws.org.hk/BBS/view ... ight=leaf%2Bwarbler

For my first sign of the Warbler, its bill is more attraction. It is so longer and bright color.
The size of the Warbler may be bigger than Yellow-Browed Warbler.

After I took photos with the Warbler, I though it may be different warblers.
1st photo is strange warbler because its longer and bright color bill, 2nd photo is Blyth's Leaf Warbler

However, I reconginzed it should be the same warblers according to images of bill.

[ Last edited by cthomas at 2/01/2013 12:54 ]

Author: lpaul Time: 2/01/2013 14:26

Quote:

Original posted by cthomas at 2/01/2013 11:48

Dear Pual,

Yes, this bird spend more time foraging on the branches and trunks of tress. Its movement seems slower than Yellow-Browed Warbler.
The 2nd photo was my first time meet it. It might f ...

This behaviour is in my experience diagnostic of the 'Blyth's Leaf Warbler' complex and is not habitually shown by the 'White-tailed leaf Warbler' complex.

Author: ajohn Time: 2/01/2013 14:29

I have only seen Ogilviegranti once, on the breeding grounds, but my memory is that these look tiny, similar in size to Pallas's. I don't get the same impression for this bird and Thomas suggests it looked bigger than Yellow-browed. Also I think the trunk-feeding behaviour is not a feature of Ogilviegranti.

To be honest, I think this bird looks fairly typical of the white-bellied 'Blyth's-type' leaf warblers that we get regularly in HK. The identity of these is still uncertain, but they are generally treated as being either fokiensis or claudiae.

Author: Jonathmartinez Time: 2/01/2013 14:50

below a picture of an other Ogilviegranti Leaf Warbler made in august 2011 at the same place. I agree tress not very big, but from their behaviour I can observe in Guangxi, they are bird of understorey, often foraging on smaller trees understorey and I see them often on tress.
I admit that it takes me a wild before put a name on these birds, and I even thought a wild that these birds were claudiae because of their very similar behaviour and because the first time was in april and I suspect they could have been migrant.

Well finally, I think that the best solution to be sure about the ID of all this birds and a more conservative issue will be to have recording of this bird from Kadorie or from all other looking like "White-tailed" or "Blyth". I will soon upload recording of Ogilviegranti from Guangxi in my website.
A good picture of the undertail should be quite usefull as well.

All the best,

Jonathan

Image Attachment: OgilviegrantiLeafWarbler_MG_9104GuangxiShiziShan20110804.jpg (2/01/2013 14:50, 139.57 KB) / Download count 535
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=13524

Author: brendank Time: 2/01/2013 14:52

I agree with John that there are many "Blyth's Leaf" Warblers around this year that look very similar to Thomas's bird. I also struggle to see how this one is much different.

[ Last edited by brendank at 2/01/2013 14:55 ]

Author: Jonathmartinez Time: 2/01/2013 18:54

"I also struggle to see how this one is much different."
Well I haven't said that there are much different, I've just said that there are some differencies, and to me they are vey subbtle, but are. To me the size difference isn't that obvious between both sp, and especially on pictures or without direct comparaison in the field. Well I think I will come back later about this subject with more materials on hand.

But, what I'm really struggle with, is why a Phylloscopus species that breed in Fujian, Jiangxi and Guangdong (same as many other Phylloscopus sp, like ricketti, or godsoni, fokiensis...that occur reguraly in HK) have never been sighted in Hong Kong, except the reason that it is totally overlooked amongst the claudiae/fokiensis birds.

To conclude, for my part, on this post, I would said that Brendan probably said true by saying Ogilviegranti being much different from claudiae/fokiensis, because I can't believe that the bird from Kadorie Farm is of the same species as the one from the below post for example :
http://www.hkbws.org.hk/BBS/view ... &extra=page%3D1

But as always, I'm happy to be corrected:-)

All the best,

Jonathan

Author: xuky.summer Time: 20/01/2013 12:34

Hi Jonathan.

Quote:

Pictures of Claudia's Leaf Warbler can be seen here : http://www.tragopan-asie.com/en/ ... lloscopus-claudiae/

Why is it a claudiae not a ogilviegranti? Follow PER ALSTROM, lateral crown-stripes of claudiae is blackish especial posteriority.

There are some fokiensis(may be goodsoni?) in Guangdong nanling forest park, 2012-06. They slowly flicks one
wing at a time, follow PER ALSTROM, It is a manner of fokiensis (goodsoni have not been studied).
http://www.birdnet.cn/showtopic. ... =1&onlyauthor=1

xuky

Author: Jonathmartinez Time: 20/01/2013 18:24

I don't understand your question. My opinion is that the bird mention is the post could be a Ogilviegranti, not claudiae nor godsoni nor fokiensis.
The bird from Nanling are godsoni and fokiensis should look similar but with less or no yellow on underparts, where to me claudiae is a bird more uniform with less contrasting head pattern and durty white (creamy)underpart especially on breast. The lateral stripe on crown in Claudiae to me are less blackish than on fokiensis, and blackish often reduce to the rear of the lateral stripe, sometime only a blackish line on the border where fokiensis looks more blackish overall. The problem with these species is that there is very few picture in winter on wich the species has been safely ID, the song remaining the best solution to ID them.
The wing flicking is usefull on breeding ground but migrant and wintering bird don't do it so often as they does on breeding ground...

All the best,

Jonathan

Author: Jonathmartinez Time: 20/01/2013 18:26

sorry re-reading your post I just understood your question. The bird on Tragopan website have been safely ID with song, you can even find the recording on the website as well. Claudia's Leaf Warbler is one of the commonest bird in Hu Ping Shan above 800 meters.

All the best,

Jonathan

Author: xuky.summer Time: 21/01/2013 19:26

Sorry, my english is very poor!
I also suspect the warblers from Nanling  is a goodsoni, so much yellow on underparts. I don't know goodsoni distribute so widely, always think it is a fokiensis.
It seems goodsoni like fokiensis also has a manner of  flicks one wing at a time.
I think the following warblers is fokiensis, is it?
1. fouzhou, fujian province. 2012-12.  http://www.birdnet.cn/showtopic. ... =1&onlyauthor=1
2. nanning, guangxi province. http://www.birdnet.cn/showtopic. ... &posterid=55433
3. fuzhou, fujian province.http://www.birdnet.cn/showtopic. ... =1&onlyauthor=1

Thanks

xuky

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