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Subject: Is this a Japanese Tit? [Print This Page]
Author: gordonvr    Time: 21/10/2023 07:27     Subject: Is this a Japanese Tit?



Image Attachment: Japanese Tit?.jpg (21/10/2023 07:27, 552.59 KB) / Download count 150
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=45180

Author: subbuteo    Time: 21/10/2023 08:58

This is a juvenile Japanese tit subspecies commixtus, the common local race.  Young tits are often very yellow, presumably camouflage?
Quote:
Original posted by gordonvr at 21/10/2023 07:27
45180
Author: gordonvr    Time: 22/10/2023 12:30

Thanks, subbuteo.  In "A Photographic Guide to the Birds of HK" it is described as "vagrant", while in the later-published Field Guide it is "abundant and widespread resident".  What is the actual position?
Author: subbuteo    Time: 22/10/2023 16:16

Quote:
Original posted by gordonvr at 22/10/2023 12:30
Thanks, subbuteo.  In "A Photographic Guide to the Birds of HK" it is described as "vagrant", while in the later-published Field Guide it is "abundant and widespread resident".  What is the actual pos ...
The current status is as outlined in the new field guide. There is a lot of debate about the whole group and I am not informed enough to give you the answer, sorry.
Author: gordonvr    Time: 23/10/2023 06:48

I see.  We shall need to wait and see how the discussion resolves itself.  Thanks for your help.
Author: John Holmes    Time: 25/10/2023 08:49     Subject: Cinreus/Japanese Tit

From the HKBWS 2022 minutes....

Cinereous Tit Parus cinereus 蒼背山雀
Recent DNA evidence from southeast China conclusively shows that the taxon commixtus is a subspecies of Japanese Tit Parus minor and not of Cinereous Tit P. cinereus. The RC has taken note of this and transferred all records of commixtus from P. cinereus to P. minor. As a result, there are no records of P. cinereus and the species is removed from the HK list. Japanese Tit P. minor remains on the HK list and is now represented by two subspecies: commixtus, which is very common and widespread in HK, and nominate minor, which was first recorded in 2013 and is rare. Intergrades may also occur.[/I]

Hope this helps !
Author: subbuteo    Time: 25/10/2023 17:56

Quote:
Original posted by John Holmes at 25/10/2023 08:49
From the HKBWS 2022 minutes....

Cinereous Tit Parus cinereus 蒼背山雀
Recent DNA evidence from southeast China conclusively shows that the taxon commixtus is a subspecies of Japanese Tit Parus minor  ...
I defer to my informed colleague!
Author: gordonvr    Time: 26/10/2023 06:44

Indeed!  Thanks, John.

Just to be very clear, in the Field Guide the juveniles of Parus minor are described as yellower (than adults) but there is no such colouration noted for juvenile Parus cinereous.  Does that mean that my bird could in fact be Parus minor?
Author: subbuteo    Time: 26/10/2023 12:08

Quote:
Original posted by gordonvr at 26/10/2023 06:44
Indeed!  Thanks, John.

Just to be very clear, in the Field Guide the juveniles of Parus minor are described as yellower (than adults) but there is no such colouration noted for juvenile Parus cinereo ...
This bird is most likely Parus minor commixtus "which is very common and widespread in HK".
Author: gordonvr    Time: 27/10/2023 06:41

... and let that be the last word in this discussion.  Thanks subbuteo and John for helping a novice.



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