Board logo

Subject: Digiscoping with the Panasonic Lumix [Print This Page]
Author: fneil    Time: 7/02/2009 16:52     Subject: Digiscoping with the Panasonic Lumix

Panasonic have launched a new type of "mirrorless" DSLR which the digiscoping world has been waiting for to replace the Nikon 8400. The camera comes standard with a kit lens that is 14-45/3.5-5.6 (28-90 mm )with 52 mm lens thread.  It's an internally focusing lens so all you need to do is screw it onto your adapter and it goes straight on the scope.  Due to it's light weight no extra support is needed. There is no vignetting with my Swarovski 30x and 20x at the 14-35 range but a little shadowing comes in after that.  With a fixed lens , such as the Olympus 50/2.0 macro this would not be a problem.
The Auto Focus is very fast, I would say instant, and the speed is 3 fps ( ups to 7 frames in RAW and Continuous in Jpeg ).  Up to iso 400 is noiseless, a little noise at iso 800 is easy to get out with Noiseware.
Here are some of my first weeks images.
Neil.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcg1/

Panasonic Lumix G1 plus Swarovski STS80HD scope and 20x/30x eyepieces and DCA adapter

Image Attachment: digiscoping G1 scope DSCN9557.jpg (7/02/2009 16:52, 122.05 KB) / Download count 1118
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3004



Image Attachment: chinese pond heron G1 iso100 14mm_1050773.jpg (7/02/2009 16:52, 121.05 KB) / Download count 957
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3005



Image Attachment: chinese pond heron feed G1 iso100 14mm_1040948.jpg (7/02/2009 16:52, 145.62 KB) / Download count 862
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3006



Image Attachment: little egret G1 iso200 17mm_1040103.jpg (7/02/2009 16:52, 116.95 KB) / Download count 911
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3007



Image Attachment: red throated flycatcher G1 iso400 18mm P1000072.jpg (7/02/2009 16:52, 144.68 KB) / Download count 915
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3008

Author: cwchan    Time: 7/02/2009 18:11

Neil,

Vibration is always the problem affecting the picture quality in digiscopic shots. The minute vibration induced by the shutter curtain in G1 has this adverse effect. I don't think it can replace a genuine dc (with quiet and nearly vibration free, in between lenses leaves-shutter). Unless the coming 4/3 system gives up the shutter curtain design, it will never be a good gear for digiscopic usage, especially if you expect top class quality. I have tried the G1 last month, getting it from my friend, and got the above conclusion.

Wing

[ Last edited by cwchan at 7/02/2009 18:18 ]
Author: fneil    Time: 11/02/2009 18:51

Wing,
     Thanks for your comments.  I was also a bit disappointed that it still required a shutter as well but I haven't noticed too much vibration and I think I could eliminate it with the use of a Balance Bar.  I haven't used mine yet with the G1. I was hoping the camera would run silently so as not to scare the birds but it still is a bit noisy.
     I do like the fast frame rate, very good screen, fast RAW, 12 megs , rotating screen. The kit lens is ok but the use of a good quality prime would improve the sharpness. The quality of the kit lens drops over 50 percent zoom.
     Here are a few more from today.  Also taken with the 30x eyepiece.
I hope to use it at NSW soon.
Neil.

Image Attachment: long tailed shrike G1 iso100 24mm_1070974.jpg (11/02/2009 18:51, 126.55 KB) / Download count 853
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3027



Image Attachment: long tailed shrike G1 iso200 14mm crop adj_1070695.jpg (11/02/2009 18:51, 115.82 KB) / Download count 881
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3028

Author: fneil    Time: 11/02/2009 18:52

From Kowloon Park.

Image Attachment: flamingo captive G1 iso400 18mm_1080311.jpg (11/02/2009 18:52, 86.6 KB) / Download count 857
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3029

Author: lwingkay    Time: 13/02/2009 16:30

Dear Neil,

Thanks for the trial run information which sounded not only interesting but also thrilling to those who have special liking for digiscopy.
Would be obliged if you would enlighten me on two issues about G1's use on Swarovski's:
a) Is the attachment of Swarovski's adaptal ring on the 14-45mm kit lens dependent on the filter screw furrows at the front of the kit lens? Most likely, that is the case, I presume. Then, is such a mounting strong and firm enough to withstand the frequent tilting, pivoting and rotating that comes along with the usual manuver involved in digoscoping?
b) Contrary to yours, my fieldscope is an angled one. Is it likely that the weight of the camera will press on the lens, automatically changing the zoom disposition while the set-up is in its free-standing position?

Seeing your set-up, I grew the idea that the best location for making connection of Swarovski's adaptal ring with any short-ranged DSLR zoom lens is the narrow and stripped region between the focusing ring and the zoom ring. To do so, one way is to permanently fix a circumventing ring with screw furrows to this narrow region, from which to bite the screw lines of the ring with the screw lines on Swarovski's adaptal ring. In one sense, the alignment is much tougher. In another, there will be no zoom-change problems arising from the force of gravity on the camera ... and more importantly, I have the feeling that there will be much lesser vibration as a result the concealment of part of the length of the DSLR lens in Swarovski's adaptal ring, thereby significantly reducing the lever arm between the DSLR and the point of anchorage on the adaptal ring.

The problem, however, is with the making of such a ring on the lens, which is much of a headache to many a layman who has near-to-none knowledge with fitter techniques.

Peter
Author: cwchan    Time: 13/02/2009 17:37

Hi Peter,

The zoom lens is an internal focus one, that is to say nothing will move externally. Such a lens design is very suitable for digiscoping use.

The thread of this kit lens is 52mm already. What you required is to turn your DCA to the filter ring thread of the lens. The G1 and the kit lens is not too heavy, I think it can stand for frequent use.

For angled scope, like yours, the weight of the G1 will press on the zoom ring and then change the zooming ratio to wide angle. You have a stick a plastic tape to fix the movement of the zoom ring in order to keep your intended zooming. A prime lens, such as 25mm, 35mm in the future may solve this problem.

Back to my old concern, the vibration, if the G1 gives up the focal plan shutter, it is certainly a very good dc for sigiscopic use.

Wing
Author: lwingkay    Time: 13/02/2009 22:23

Thanks, Wing. I am fully aware of your concern over the vibration issue. I still remember what you suggested in a correspondence with you. You said Forget about it. Perhaps, vibration is a physical limitation that few can go an inch beyond it ... but the Chinese say it well that once when one decides to set foot on the Great Wall, one's heart will grow fondered unless the desire is filled.  Pete
Author: fneil    Time: 14/02/2009 17:02

Quote:
Original posted by lwingkay at 13/02/2009 16:30
Dear Neil,

Thanks for the trial run information which sounded not only interesting but also thrilling to those who have special liking for digiscopy.
Would be obliged if you would enlighten me on two ...
Peter,
      You would get some "zoom creep" with the angled scope due to the weight of the camera. If you shoot at wide-angle this won't be a problem.  I shoot at wide-angle or close ( usually 14 - 18 mm )most of the time and prefer to change eyepieces if I need more reach.
I will be going to a fixed lens when with a zoom eyepiece when the budget allows ( the Olympus 50/2.0 is around HK$4500 ).
The weight of the camera is not a problem with the connection as it seems very stable.
Neil.
Author: fneil    Time: 14/02/2009 17:08     Subject: More photos from the G1

Here are some more photos with the G1.  The first Little Egret photo was taken at iso 640 and the flamingo bathing at iso 400.
Neil

[ Last edited by fneil at 14/02/2009 17:40 ]

Image Attachment: little egret G1 iso640 19mm nware_1090317.jpg (14/02/2009 17:40, 113.6 KB) / Download count 842
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3041



Image Attachment: little egret G1 iso100 19mm_1040238.jpg (14/02/2009 17:40, 113.64 KB) / Download count 875
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3042



Image Attachment: flamingo G1 iso400 28mm_1080802.jpg (14/02/2009 17:40, 129.03 KB) / Download count 794
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3043



Image Attachment: duck G1 iso200 14mm_1080189.jpg (14/02/2009 17:40, 119.13 KB) / Download count 828
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3044

Author: fneil    Time: 14/02/2009 17:42     Subject: High iso with the G1

I took this Magpie Robin photo at 60x on the Swarovski zoom and at iso 1600.  The result has been adjusted in CS2 and Noiseware.  Neil

Image Attachment: magpie robin male G1 iso1600 14mm swzoom60x nware_1060697 .jpg (14/02/2009 17:42, 132.52 KB) / Download count 1067
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3045

Author: lwingkay    Time: 14/02/2009 18:50

Thanks Neil for the photos and the information. I think the photos in the thread More photos from the G1 are fresh from the camera without denoising, aren't they? That being the case, the G1 is really worth giving due consideration next time when procuring another digital camera for digiscoping purposes.
Do you mind posting the raw jpeg file for the one at ISO1600 for comparison?
Pete
Author: fneil    Time: 17/02/2009 03:05     Subject: Original file at iso 2600

Here is the original jpeg file.  I haven't processed the Raw files yet as I have to use the Panasonic software and I haven't tried it yet.  I will get to it during these few days of lousy weather.
Neil.

Author: lwingkay    Time: 17/02/2009 09:35

Thanks, Neil. It is very kind of you.  Pete
Author: fneil    Time: 17/02/2009 12:15     Subject: Raw with the G1

I finally worked out how to use the Panasonic Silkypix editing software. This composite shows the converted Tiff image on the left and the CS2 adjusted image on the right .  The photo was taken at iso 400 from about 7 metres.
Neil

Image Attachment: test G1 iso400 comp.jpg (17/02/2009 12:15, 150.91 KB) / Download count 863
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3061

Author: fneil    Time: 20/02/2009 18:15     Subject: Adapter setup for the G1

Here is the way I have the G1 setup on the Swarovski scope using the Swarovski DCA adapter.
Neil.

Author: lwingkay    Time: 23/02/2009 13:54

Dear fneil,
The photos showing the assembly process are fantastic.
A matter of interest about vibration arising from the mass extended from the 52mm plate of the DCA adapter. The ups and downs of the reflex mirror of the DSLR are vibrations enough to bring about image blurring. Are there any good methods to harness vibration from that? I know that Swarovski has a telescope base with a rail under it for mounting the fieldscope, the link to it being http://www.swarovskioptik.com/in ... .94720262&css=. At least, there are three anchorage points on the base for steadying the fieldscop,as can be seen from the photo, which definitely will do good to vibration prevention. Any experience you have with that in addition to your other experiences related to vibration control?
Regards,
Pete
Author: lwingkay    Time: 24/02/2009 01:14     Subject: Digiscoping with D200 and an AF 24-50mm zoom Nikkor

An AF 24-50mm zoom Nikkor is used. The silver-colored tube structure is an adaptal ring to link the eye-piece with the zoom lens to which a DSLR can be attached.

Manuvering as follows:
a. The eyepiece is locked in position by fastening the first two screws from the left.
b. Rotation along the central axis can be done by releasing the second pair of screws from the left.
c. Windows are opened on the barrel of the adaptal ring to cope with focusing.
d. The adaptal ring is clamped in position by 3 screws with their tips nailing on the thin strip of landing between the focusing ring and the zooming ring. Properly set up, full-range zooming and focusing is possible.
e. Only slight vignetting occurs when the lens is zoomed in to 24mm.

Additional information about tube length adjustment
You see two rings behind the rows of screws and screw lines on the barrel between the two rings. They are for the purpose of adjusting the legnth of the adapter for coping with the difference in height of the eyepiece. The 30x is 62mm while the 45x a slight bit longer, around 63-64mm; the measurements were taken when these eyepieces were mounted onto the fieldscope.

Here are a few pictures of the set-up.

1  The adaptal ring to which the zoom lens and the eyepiece have been attached

[ Last edited by lwingkay at 24/02/2009 01:47 ]

Image Attachment: P2240257.JPG (24/02/2009 01:14, 86.35 KB) / Download count 895
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3089

Author: lwingkay    Time: 24/02/2009 01:15

2   The fieldscope with a 45x eyepiece on

Image Attachment: P2240258.JPG (24/02/2009 01:15, 58.2 KB) / Download count 990
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3090

Author: lwingkay    Time: 24/02/2009 01:18

3  The fieldscope mounted with the eyepiece, adaptal ring, zoom lens and DSLR

[ Last edited by lwingkay at 24/02/2009 01:39 ]

Image Attachment: P2240253.JPG (24/02/2009 01:18, 79.22 KB) / Download count 974
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3091

Author: lwingkay    Time: 24/02/2009 01:24

Two pictures. The shooting particulars for the following one are:
ISO 100, Aperture at 5, Shutter Speed at 1/3 of a second. Camera being a Nikon D200. Mirror was held up and the delay exposure mode was used. The shutter was released using a cable release.

Postscript:  The eyepiece for this one was a 30x.

[ Last edited by lwingkay at 24/02/2009 01:52 ]

Image Attachment: P2210238.JPG (24/02/2009 01:24, 194.13 KB) / Download count 960
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3092

Author: lwingkay    Time: 24/02/2009 01:29

5
ISO 640.  Shutter Speed 1/3 of a second. Aperture at f4.5. Other shooting particulars as the ones in #4 above.

Postscript:  The eyepiece for this one was a 45x. The kingfisher was very far away, about 20-25m in distance.

[ Last edited by lwingkay at 24/02/2009 01:51 ]

Image Attachment: P2210239.JPG (24/02/2009 01:29, 163.45 KB) / Download count 949
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3093

Author: lwingkay    Time: 24/02/2009 01:37

Vibration is difficult to overcome. I am thinking of providing an additional anchorage point to the dorsal side of the fieldscope to reduce vibration but since I am using a Manfrotto 501 tripod head, installing an additional anchorage is difficult limited by the length of the 501-fast-release plate. Probably, Swarovski's telescope base is a solution.
Thanks for viewing.
Pete
Author: lwingkay    Time: 24/02/2009 01:57

Comparison with images taken with a CP8400.

#6 and 7 were at ISO 50. Shutter speeds were very low but in the absence of a reflex mirror, vibration is not a problem with CP8400.

6

Image Attachment: P2220246.JPG (24/02/2009 01:57, 79.4 KB) / Download count 957
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3094

Author: lwingkay    Time: 24/02/2009 01:59

The kingfisher in #6 was about 20-25m away. The eyepiece used was a 45x.

#7
The eyepiece was a 30x and the bird was about 7m away.

Image Attachment: P2220243.JPG (24/02/2009 01:59, 110.63 KB) / Download count 817
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3095

Author: fneil    Time: 24/02/2009 11:13

Pete,
    This is the way that I set up for my other DSLRs and digicams with eyepiece "unfriendly" lenses (eg Canon G6, A650 ).  The advantage here is that the downward pressure on depressing the shutter is almost directly over the tripod head (this will only balance well with heavier cameras ). The Manfrotto sliding plate at the rear makes it most flexible when you use lenses of different lengths. I have not found the balance bar necessary with the G1. Neil

Image Attachment: digiscoping_DSC0049.jpg (24/02/2009 11:13, 117.08 KB) / Download count 866
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3096

Author: lwingkay    Time: 24/02/2009 12:14

A really interesting set-up. Thanks, Neil.  Pete
Author: lsingfan    Time: 25/02/2009 23:12

Thanks Neil for demonstrating us new things from time to time. The picture quality by G1 is very good, however I think it is mostly resulting from your skills and experience. How to capture the object within a second without vibration is always the 1st lesson for digiscopers. I have ever tried to connect my Nikon ED82 with the D200, irrespective of how the quality was, the whole setup was really too heavy to be moving around. Hence I still like to use DC for my scope. Here are 2 pictures taken few days ago by them for sharing.

Equipment:
Canon A610 + Swing-away adaptor + Nikon ED82 + Red-dot sight
Manfrotto 501 video head + tripod

sing fan (ray2758)

Image Attachment: IMG_0064_100.jpg (25/02/2009 23:12, 93.96 KB) / Download count 777
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3109



Image Attachment: IMG_0087_100.jpg (25/02/2009 23:12, 95.54 KB) / Download count 797
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3110

Author: hsteen    Time: 3/03/2009 15:50     Subject: Digiscoping

I use a remote control on the camera Nikon D200 and make the setting on Mirror up.
The you have to press the remote twice to take a photo.
No shaking.
To Neill:

Nice shots as usual and thanks for the info about the Panasonic.
Are you sure the 50mm lens will not make vignetting?
Author: lwingkay    Time: 4/03/2009 00:01

Quote:
Original posted by hsteen at 3/03/2009 15:50
I use a remote control on the camera Nikon D200 and make the setting on Mirror up.
The you have to press the remote twice to take a photo.
No shaking.
To Neill:

Nice shots as usual and thanks for the ...
An additional improvement on shake prevention: Using the exposure delay mode as well.
Pete
Author: lwingkay    Time: 10/03/2009 01:45

Two shots taken with the 80HD ATS, a 30x-eyepiece, an AFD 24-50mm Nikkor and a D200.
The zoom at 40mm (APS equivalent approx 60mm)
The aperture at f4.
The shutter speed:  5 sec for Shot 1 and 6 sec for Shot 2
Released with the mirror locked and the shutter at delay exposure mode.

1

2

[ Last edited by lwingkay at 10/03/2009 01:54 ]

Image Attachment: P3100302.JPG (10/03/2009 01:53, 155.2 KB) / Download count 882
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3211



Image Attachment: P3100301.JPG (10/03/2009 01:53, 101.41 KB) / Download count 961
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3212

Author: fneil    Time: 19/03/2009 11:37     Subject: The G1 up close

These are from about 8 metres which is perfect for digiscoping.  Shows the detail the G1's plastic kit zoom lens is capable of.  I'll be testing the Nikon 20/2.8 lens on the G1 soon. Neil

Panasonic Lumix G1 plus Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw 30x eyepiece

Hong Kong Island,
Hong Kong,
China.
March 2009

Image Attachment: chinese bulbul flowers G1_1220013.jpg (19/03/2009 11:37, 104.48 KB) / Download count 716
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3286



Image Attachment: chinese bulbul flowers G1_1220002.jpg (19/03/2009 11:37, 125.84 KB) / Download count 744
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3287



Image Attachment: rwbulbul flowers G1_1220043.jpg (19/03/2009 11:37, 117.5 KB) / Download count 692
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3288



Image Attachment: crested myna flowers G1_1220031.jpg (19/03/2009 11:37, 76.92 KB) / Download count 765
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=3289

Author: cwchan    Time: 19/03/2009 20:17

Great demo, Neil.
Author: lwingkay    Time: 22/03/2009 18:32

Plate 1 below was taken in The Chinese University of Hong Kong on Mar 14 at 16:58 hrs. The sky was pretty gloomy that day.
Shooting particulars as follows:
Camera: D200
Lens: AFD 24-50mm Nikkor, Swarovski 30x-eyepiece, Swarovski 80HD ATS
Settings: Zoom at 50mm, Aperture f5, Shutter Speed: 1/40 of a second, ISO AT 250
Release: Directly by pressing on the shutter release.
Distance: The kingfisher was about 20m away.

Vibration is still a problem but much improved after resting the fieldscope on a support as shown in Plate 2, the making of which is still underway.

Plate 3 is the adaptal ring holding the zoom lens and the magnifier.


Plate 1


Plate 2



Plate 3



[ Last edited by lwingkay at 22/03/2009 18:39 ]
Author: ckacheung    Time: 24/03/2009 06:50

Neil

Your ideal gear is so impressive.
May I ask for help ?
I have Pentax 80ED spotting scope and want to connect with G1

your DCA is used for SW ...can it be used with my scope too ??
If not, how can I do ??

Thanks a lot

KC
Author: fneil    Time: 27/03/2009 07:06

KC,
   Sorry to be a bit slow responding to your question but I was away in Dubai without my laptop.  The Pentax eyepieces have a screw thread ( I think it's 43 mm ). You can just a step up ring from 43 - 52 mm and then just screw the eyepiece straight into the camera lens. Neil.



Welcome to HKBWS Forum 香港觀鳥會討論區 (http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/) Powered by Discuz! 6.0.0