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Subject: Digiscoping with TLS-800 [Print This Page]
Author: puppymic    Time: 31/08/2009 20:27     Subject: Digiscoping with TLS-800

Digiscoping with Swarovski STS-80HD, TLS-800 adaptor & Nikon D300 (800mm @f/10)














Author: cwchan    Time: 31/08/2009 23:51

It is very difficult to use this ultra-long tele lens. Yet, you still got a very good series. Good work, Mandy.
After getting the long plate and adding of suitble vibration absorbent. The overall picture can be further improved.
Author: puppymic    Time: 1/09/2009 00:08

Thank you for your encouragement
Author: tbob    Time: 1/09/2009 05:52

28th August 2009
Kowloon Park

Chinese Pond Heron & Black-crowned Night Heron

Swarovski ATS 80HD scope, TLS800 and Canon 5D Mark 2


[img] [/img]

[ Last edited by tbob at 1/09/2009 07:48 ]
Author: lwingkay    Time: 1/09/2009 17:23

The following is a very good stabilization set-up posted by Neil in another thread of this forum, the link being http://www.hkbws.org.hk/BBS/viewthread.php?tid=7343&extra=page%3D1. The gist of the problem with digiscoping, as Wing has said, is vibration. The trick here is to provide good anchorage points for the fieldscope and the camera body.
The straight fieldscope, e.g. 80 HD STS, the one that you are using, works well with the above design.  A pity that mine is an angled one, difficult to be aligned in a similar manner.
A bit picky: would have been even better if the camera can rotate on the central axis of the adaptal ring as , by then, shots of the portrait format can be taken. Now, only the landscape format is possible.



Author: lwingkay    Time: 1/09/2009 17:51

Plate I is the set-up I have been using to digiscope. There are three anchorage points to prevent vibration: respectively on the retractable hood, mounting ring and bending-up point of the fieldscope. There is a sleeper concealed under the bending-up point to deck the platform up for the purpose anchorage. The white metal plates and black adhesive straps are to further enhance the stability of the fieldscope.







Plate II is a photo taken with an eyepiece and a Nkon CP8400 while Plate III is a photo taken with a TLS 800 and a Nikon D200.

Plate II   The shutter speed is 3/10 of a second




Plate III    The shutter speed is 1/20 of a second.


[ Last edited by lwingkay at 1/09/2009 22:32 ]
Author: puppymic    Time: 1/09/2009 19:37

Bob and Wingkay

Thank you for your advices and demonstration

Mandy
Author: papago    Time: 1/09/2009 22:45

除了器材外 , 後製也很重要

整容前



整容後
Author: puppymic    Time: 1/09/2009 23:05

papago兄，你好犀利呀

我不懂整容 （其實已經整了，不過不見效果吧 ）
Author: lwingkay    Time: 2/09/2009 00:53

Possibilities with post-treatment depend on the quality of the original take. Quality depends, as most experts say, on how exposure, focusing and framing are controlled. In post-treatment, I like fine tuning the tonal contrast, defocusing backgrounds and cloning out undesirable objects to make the focus of interest more prominent.

Original takes of the shots posted in the previous thread are attached for reference. Hoped you don't mind Puppymic that in your shots posted above, the gist of the problem is with focusing. You can convert tonal contrast and adjust exposure as what Papago did in his shot, but there is no way to make an outfocused image focused.

Regards,
Pete

[ Last edited by lwingkay at 2/09/2009 00:56 ]

Image Attachment: [Adusting the highlight and shadow parts] P9020335.JPG (2/09/2009 00:53, 194.79 KB) / Download count 648
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=4233



Image Attachment: [Cloning out branches] P9020333.JPG (2/09/2009 00:56, 156.39 KB) / Download count 619
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=4234

Author: puppymic    Time: 2/09/2009 00:58

Thanks Pete

I hope I could improve the out-focus problem after getting the long plate
Author: lwingkay    Time: 2/09/2009 01:01

Another case showing branches being cloned out and background being defocused.
Pete

[ Last edited by lwingkay at 3/09/2009 10:20 ]

Image Attachment: [The original] P9020332.JPG (2/09/2009 01:01, 158.52 KB) / Download count 596
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=4235



Image Attachment: [After treatment] P9010331.JPG (2/09/2009 01:01, 87.31 KB) / Download count 630
http://hkbws.org.hk/BBS/attachment.php?aid=4236

Author: cwchan    Time: 9/09/2009 22:06

I have had my TLS-800 for quite a long time. However, I am reluctant to use it due to the vibration caused by the DSLR camera, not easy to get a sharp image by using it.

Today, I try it out again with the installation of my new long plate (25cm) to support the scope. It is obvious from the shots that the vibration created was reduced significantly with the use of long plate.

The following test shots were taken at ISO 320 (1/160s) and ISO 500 (1/100s) for the road sign and the sparrow respectively. No shutter cord, mirror lock, etc. was applied in the shots.

Place you left hand and apply downward force slightly on the front portion of your scope while your right hand hold your camera during exposure is a very efficient method to reduce the vibration, this is the skill of handling ultra-long lenses.

The setup,


Uncropped image, ISO320, 1/160 second, taking from the setup show above to the roadsign behind.


100% cropping of above image


The sparrow, ISO 500, 1/100 second


[ Last edited by cwchan at 9/09/2009 22:14 ]
Author: puppymic    Time: 9/09/2009 22:25

嘩！好期待塊長板呀，咁 Vibration Absorbent Rubber 係邊度買？
Author: dick    Time: 9/09/2009 22:54

How much is the TLS800 now?
I think it is too expensive for me.
Author: puppymic    Time: 9/09/2009 23:01

參考價 ....

http://www.tincheungcamera.com.hk/product/7242
Author: dick    Time: 9/09/2009 23:16

Quote:
Original posted by puppymic at 9/09/2009 23:01
參考價 ....

http://www.tincheungcamera.com.hk/product/7242
真係要咁貴?
Author: puppymic    Time: 9/09/2009 23:20

唔知呀！天祥可能會貴D掛，好世界 or 九龍生活會唔會平D呢？
Author: lwingkay    Time: 10/09/2009 21:24

The following shot was taken with a TLS 800.  The shooting particulars were as follows:
相機:Fujifilm FinePix S5Pro
曝光:0.036 sec (1/28)
Aperture:f/9.5
焦距:800 mm
ISO 速度:400
曝光偏向:+0.33 EV
閃光:Off, Did not fire


The aperture should have been set as f10 according to specifications laid down in TLS 800's literature, but in S5 Pro, the only option for aperature setting available for non-CPU lens is f9.5, meaning that there will be a slight under-exposure resulted if metering is based on that aperture setting. The exposure was therefore increased by 1/3 stop during shooting.

The shutter speed was slow for a shot of this focal length: 1/28 of a second. Thanks to the tailor-made wooden plank that a friend of mine made for me for mounting my digiscoping set-up, not much vibration problems were encountered during shooting that day. If interested, you may refer to a previous posting in this thread for how I set out my gears on the wooden plank.

  
Author: puppymic    Time: 10/09/2009 21:47

好 sharp 呀！

你果塊木板我係post見過，好長下。我果塊長板 33mm 唔知夠唔夠長呢
Author: lwingkay    Time: 10/09/2009 22:26

Quote:
Original posted by puppymic at 10/09/2009 21:47
好 sharp 呀！

你果塊木板我係post見過，好長下。我果塊長板 33mm 唔知夠唔夠長呢
沒有實物，所以很難說。不過Wing的25cm長板也可以做出如此好的效果，我相信33cm會更理想好了。
題外話：個人感覺木板在防震上應比金屬好。

Without the plate, it is difficult to say but seeing the good result from Wing working with the 25cm, the 35cm will obviously be better.
A side issue: a wooden anchorage plank is better than a metal one as regards vibration control.

[ Last edited by lwingkay at 10/09/2009 22:33 ]
Author: hsteen    Time: 10/09/2009 22:56     Subject: TSL 800

You have to use mirror-up function and a remote control when using the TSL 800mm on the scope.
Author: lwingkay    Time: 10/09/2009 23:20

Another way is to use the continuous mood. It is good for two reasons:
a. both hands on the set up with the left pressing on the fieldscope to enhance stabilization and the right holding the camera to prevent vibration from the opening and closing of the reflex mirror; and
b. the image from either the 2nd or 3rd shot is usually with less vibration.

Having said that, I always use the singe-shot mode and it works well for my set-up.

Thanks Hsteen for the suggestion.

Pete
Author: tbob    Time: 11/09/2009 07:34

Maybe I am doing something wrong, I just put my camera in AV mode and click the shutter, I don't have a long balance bar with vibration pads. I have ordered a bar from Wing in the hope of improving!


[ Last edited by tbob at 11/09/2009 07:36 ]
Author: tbob    Time: 11/09/2009 08:02

If you are using the TLS800 there a big advantage for those with DSLR's with "liveview". My camera in liveview allows me to magnify the LCD 10x and you are able to get very accurate focus, in fact last time out with the TLS800 everyshot I had taken was in sharp focus. This setup gives me a "poor man's" 800mm lens and I tend to treat the setup as normal photography not Digiscoping.

This is a shot taken 6 months ago using the same TLS800 setup in low light. The shutter is 1/50 sec at ISO 800 and the bird is swimming fairly fast

Bob


[ Last edited by tbob at 11/09/2009 08:04 ]
Author: cwchan    Time: 11/09/2009 12:47

Nice shots, Bob.

Poor-man's 800mm ?

It is not cheap, but I agree it is the lightest 800mm indeed.
Author: tbob    Time: 13/09/2009 19:06

Sunday 13th September 2009, Long Valley.

Digiscoped using Swarovski ATS 80HD, TLS800 and Canon DSLR
Author: cwchan    Time: 16/09/2009 21:41

Apart from vibration, another problem of using the angled scope with the TLS800 is the twist of the system,in particular if you are carrying/walking around in the field.  This is not obvious for straight type scope.
With the help of 33cm long plate and a pair of angle brackets and a small ballhead, the problem is now solved.

A pair of angle brackets : $68 (at Shamshuipo)
The samll ballhead : $50 (at Shamshuipo)

Of course, you must tolerate the workmandship at this price. For those who have the long plate, it is a good try.  

Author: lwingkay    Time: 17/09/2009 09:04

Quote:
Original posted by cwchan at 16/09/2009 21:41
Apart from vibration, another problem of using the angled scope with the TLS800 is the twist of the system,in particular if you are carrying/walking around in the field.  This is not obvious for strai ...
THANKS FOR SHARING. INSPIRING INDEED AS REGARDS THE WAY TO STABILIZE THE TLS SETUP ON THE TRIPOD HEAD.
SUGGESTIONS:
1 IT IS BETTER TO PROVIDE NON-SLIP STRIPS ON THE LONG PLATE TO ENHANCE THE GRIP OF THE FIELDSCOPE ON THE PLATE.
2 IT SEEMS BETTER TO LINK THE GRIP OF THE ADJUSTABLE L-BRACKET TO THE VERY TOP OF TLS800 AS THAT MAY ALLOW THE CAMERA TO ROTATE ON THE CENTRAL AXIS OF THE TLS, WITH WHICH VERTICAL FRAMING CAN THEN BE POSSIBLE.

PETE
Author: cwchan    Time: 17/09/2009 14:15

Thanks Peter for the suggestion if you want the portrait format.

However, regarding the non-slip material such thing, I hold different view.
If the long plate has already been provided with retaining pin, retaining slot or double bolts for securing the lens (fieldscope in this case). This kind of material in between is not necessary at all.  I don't think it has anything to do in reducing vibration, enhancing the security of the lens.   Arca, Wimberley, RRS have already set this standard for connecting the their plate to the lens directly metal to metal without the necessity of adding any material in between.

Of course, for those long plate without the provision of retaining pin, retaining slot, double bolts, etc,  non-slip material in between the plate and the lens is a must, to grip the lens in secure position.

Wing

[ Last edited by cwchan at 17/09/2009 20:00 ]
Author: lwingkay    Time: 17/09/2009 21:53

Quote:
Original posted by cwchan at 17/09/2009 14:15
Thanks Peter for the suggestion if you want the portrait format.

However, regarding the non-slip material such thing, I hold different view.
If the long plate has already been provid ...
You said it well that in the presence of the retaining pin, retaining slot or double bolts, such the non-slippery material is no longer necessary. Fully agree with you.
Pete
Author: cwchan    Time: 3/10/2009 23:19

Having seen my DIY, C-fu makes this supporting bracket for my TLS-800, the system can take portrait format as it can rotate now. Not yet tried it out in the field.



Author: cwchan    Time: 8/10/2009 20:34

I tried it out again in field with the supporting bracket, putting it on a Gitzo No. 2 tripod and a Gitzo 2380 Video head. The TLS-800 is really excellent optic even under the unfavourite condition that against the light. If you manage to get the right focus, it always gives you a very sharp image.

Nikon D300, ISO 320, 1/160 second, +0.3ev

Asian Brown Flycatcher
Quarry Bay
8.10.2009


The original uncropped image
Author: cwchan    Time: 11/10/2009 17:52

Shing Mun Valley Park
11.10.2009.

TLS-800 at Nikon D300

ISO200, 1/30 second, -0.3EV
Taken in portrait format, nearly uncropped.


ISO200, 1/30 second, -0.3EV


ISO200, 1/160 second, -1EV


[ Last edited by cwchan at 11/10/2009 17:55 ]
Author: lwingkay    Time: 21/10/2009 00:14

Quote:
Original posted by cwchan at 3/10/2009 23:19
Having seen my DIY, C-fu makes this supporting bracket for my TLS-800, the system can take portrait format as it can rotate now. Not yet tried it out in the field.

http://images4.fotop.net/albums2/cw ...
I missed seeing this posting until tonight. Without doubt, the L-bracket must be working magic for the Swarovski fieldscope incorporated with its tailor-made TLS800.
Are you still keeping the specifications for the L-bracket with you?
Regards,
Peter
Author: lwingkay    Time: 21/10/2009 17:44

Dear Wing,
Many thanks for your quick reply to my email account.
Regards,
Pete
Author: lwingkay    Time: 30/10/2009 21:31

Quote:
Original posted by cwchan at 3/10/2009 23:19
Having seen my DIY, C-fu makes this supporting bracket for my TLS-800, the system can take portrait format as it can rotate now. Not yet tried it out in the field.

http://images4.fotop.net/albums2/cw ...
Got an L-bracket of the same design as Wing's from Master Chan, the mechanic who made the long plate, today and tried it out in the field this afternoon with my TLS800 at about 4pm in Shing Mun Valley Park. The birds in the following attachments were in the shadow and the shutter speeds were pretty low for a focal length of 1200mm and an aperture of 10. The reduction in vibration brought about by the L-bracket is highly acceptable to me. The respective shutter speed is provided for reference in each shot attached.

Would like to take this opportunity to thank Wing for his valuable advice in the course of making the L-bracket.

Peter

1.  1/60 of a sec


2  1/14 of a sec
Author: cwchan    Time: 30/10/2009 23:39

You finally got the L-bracket...Peter.
Nice shots, in particular the first one, I like its pose.
It is hard to believe you can have you shot (the second one) be taken at 1/15 second for a super-tele lens like this.
Author: 觀鳥新丁    Time: 5/11/2009 00:43

Quote:
Original posted by puppymic at 31/08/2009 20:27
Digiscoping with Swarovski STS-80HD, TLS-800 adaptor & Nikon D300 (800mm @f/10)


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p85/puppymic/Digiscopin ...
見師兄的裝備都屬於上階, 何解以畫質較洪董的c5060配kama 83ed失色, 是微震, 但見師兄的云台及其他設施都很好...

是機身與單筒不配合?
Author: puppymic    Time: 5/11/2009 00:57

是我的單筒攝影技術不及papago兄好呀

如果在那次拍的時候，我有用一支粗一點的腳，加一塊長板和用快門線，應該會好一點點
Author: cbryan    Time: 5/11/2009 01:03

when used with an adaptor, the DSLR will lose it's auto focus function and the aperture greatly reduced leading to slower shutter speeds, greatly increasing the effect of any vibration.

i have the same problem using my nikon ED82 + D200 combo, even using a shutter release, since the flip of the mirror in the DSLR often causes enough vibration to ruin the picture, especially in overcast or dim conditions.  i guess one way to get round with this problem is to use an L-bracket and an even sturdier tripod.

bryan
Author: puppymic    Time: 5/11/2009 01:12

Thanks Bryan.

我果支係直筒黎， L-bracket 仲會唔會有幫助，咁如果我用一部無反光板既機 (Panasonic GH1)，可能會好D喎
Author: cbryan    Time: 5/11/2009 01:29

其實我實戰經驗極少，係度扮緊代表。

i think it doesn't matter whether it's an L bracket or not.  the point is if you attach you fieldscope + adaptor + dslr setup onto the tripod using the original mounting point of the fieldscope, the centre of gravity of the whole setup will actually not be falling onto the tripod mount and this will create a lot of vibrations.  so even if u're using a straight scope, a flat adapting bracket which help to offset the mounting point of the setup will help a lot.

i haven't got one or tried one either.  but that's what i learnt from other digiscoping forum.

bryan
Author: puppymic    Time: 5/11/2009 01:34

請問 flat adapting bracket 係點樣架？可唔可以有相 or URL link 睇睇？ Thanks

Mandy
Author: puppymic    Time: 5/11/2009 01:37

原來 flat adapting bracket 即係長板，咁等我再拎套機出去玩下先，睇下今次效果會唔會好D

Thanks
Author: cbryan    Time: 5/11/2009 01:37

oh, actually i see you're using one already.  我反而想問問你係邊度買。
Author: cbryan    Time: 5/11/2009 01:40

hey mandy,

maybe you should shift the whole setup towards the front a little bit.  now the CG of the setup is a little bit at the rear, when you have the tripod head unlocked it tends to point upward, right?
Author: puppymic    Time: 5/11/2009 01:43

睇睇呢個 post： http://www.hkbws.org.hk/BBS/view ... &extra=page%3D1

係呢度 pm 都得喎
http://www.hkbws.org.hk/BBS/pm.php?action=send&uid=325
Author: cbryan    Time: 5/11/2009 01:45

many thanks, mandy.

bryan
Author: dick    Time: 5/11/2009 11:54

Mandy,

你又有M43 body, 又有TLS800, 有無試過一起用呢?

Rgds,
Dick
Author: puppymic    Time: 5/11/2009 20:22

未試呀，聽完Bryan講用長板同無反光板既相機應該會對減少微震有幫助，我都諗住搵日拎去試下，睇下個效果會唔會好D
Author: 觀鳥新丁    Time: 5/11/2009 20:56

Quote:
Original posted by puppymic at 5/11/2009 00:57
是我的單筒攝影技術不及papago兄好呀

如果在那次拍的時候，我有用一支粗一點的腳，加一塊長板和用快門線，應該會好一點點
明白...謝謝 ....



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