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Subject: Three sets of Swarovski-based digiscoping set-up [Print This Page]
Author: lwingkay    Time: 14/11/2009 14:20     Subject: Three sets of Swarovski-based digiscoping set-up

The following are three set-ups that I am using for avian digiscoping purposes. Photos showing how they perform in low-light conditions follow afterwards.

1  Set-up I - using Nikon's prosumer DC, the CP8400, as the image recorder

a) Optics: Swarovski's fieldscope 80 HD ATS and 30x-eyepiece
b) Adaptor between Eyepiece and Prosumer DC:  A tailor-made aluminium tube capable of i) adjusting tube length for accomoodating the size of different eyepieces; ii) rotating along the central axis of the eyepiece for the purpose of landscape- and portrait-format shooting.
c) Supporting L-bracket: A tailor-made aluminium tube for the purpose of a) reducing vibration from the manuver of shooting; and b) providing firmer anchorage for the adaptor in (b) above;
d) Nikon CP8400 52mm-diameter adaptal tube for linking with the adaptor in (b)
e) Tripod and tripod head:  Gitzo on which is Manfrotto's 501
f)  Backing-up Platform:  Comprising a tailor-made wooden plank on the top and a tailor-made 38cm-long plate at the bottom for sliding onto Manfrotto 501. The long-plate is the same in design as the one used by CW Chan. The long plate makes it possible for the best balancing point to be found for the whole system so that it will tilt abruptly when your hands are off the gears and that when you want to stop at a certain tilting angle, the whole set up will stop as you wish, thus enhancing stability while shooting.  


2  Set-up II: using a Nikon D200 and an AFD 24-50mm Nikkor

The components are similar to Set-up I's except that a DSLR and DSLR zoom lens have been used and because of that, the following adjustments have been made:

a)   A new adaptor between the eyepiece and the zoom lens (same as the adaptor in Set-up I, this one also has the features of tube length adjustment and rotation functions along the central axis);
b)   A new L-bracket for providing anchorage for the zoom lens;
b)   Absence of the adaptor mentioned in item (d) of the first set up; and
c)   Provision of a shutter-release cable for stabler shutter release.






3    Set-up III - using Nikon's D200 and Swarovski's telescope converter TLS800

TLS800 is a teleconverter that changes Swarovski's 80 HD ATS into an f10 800mm super-telephotographic lens.

For Nikon cameras of the grade D200 or above, the camera is capable of providing automatic metering functions for this manual lens. Just click the Non-CPU lens icon, enter the information 800mm and f9.5 into the camera and things will go automatic for you.

The f9.5 should be an f10 but the camera can only provide f9.5, in which case you have to provide a +0.3 EV adjustment in subsequent shooting to attain correct exposure.     


4  Photos showing their performance in low-light conditions.

The following shots were taken in my house and were directly from the camera without treatment.

a)    Set-up I   (f3.7 for 1 sec, released using the finger)

       


b)  Set-up II   (f4.1 for 1.3 sec, releasing using a cable)


c)  Set-up III  (f9.5 for 1/1.3 sec, released using a cable)


[ Last edited by lwingkay at 1/02/2010 12:07 ]
Author: 觀鳥新丁    Time: 14/11/2009 15:14

師兄的組合, 正是本人的目標也.

三種組合, 你認為那一個較合用?

SWA有DCA及DBC原廠接環, 何解不用? 要配合TAILOR-MADE配件?

用DC時, ZOOM到最WIDE, 有無黑圈內

而CP8400, 有否RC或電子快門?

如果用了24-50與直用TLS800, PQ是否後者較好?

何解選用30X EYEPIECE, 已不使用20X或ZOOM 20-60X ?

太多問題, 謝謝...

還有, 幾錢改裝費? 可否介紹(PM)...

thank you again
Author: lwingkay    Time: 14/11/2009 17:02

觀鳥新丁的提問，回覆如下：
1.        三種組合, 你認為那一個較合用?
Setup I最好: focal length長，輕便，防震效率最高，有zoom，也是成像最銳利不過的。Setup III最易組合，在D200上有1200mm焦距；如果在操控手勢上熟練可以有得心應手的效果。Setup II原則上最好的，但因我用的是angled scope，拍攝時操控手勢更要純熟，所以最不好用。
2.        SWA有DCA及DBC原廠接環, 何解不用? 要配合TAILOR-MADE配件?
我用的eyepieces是30x及40x兩款。它們的高度有少許不同。很可惜Swarovski的DCA的管身長度是無法調校的，在單用它時，相片的暗角就不太理想了。不過，如果你用20x-eyepiece，DCA暗角的問題應該不大。
用自制的adaptor的另一考慮是影直度。DCA可影直，但在轉度時，有可能偏離中軸，導至暗角。
致於DCB，因為它是不能用於直度的拍攝，我對它的興趣不大。
3.        用DC時, ZOOM到最WIDE, 有無黑圈內
Setup 1: CP8400的zoom range是24至85mm。如用30x時，大約在35mm開始，暗角就消失了，大約在80-85mm再輕微出現。如果用45x，暗角在35-40mm左右開始消失，不再重現。以上是我用單一個adaptor，將其管身鎖死在一個長度定位的結果。如果用上兩個adaptors，暗角應可進一步減少。
Setup II: 很小，在24-28mm有些微。
4.        而CP8400, 有否RC或電子快門?
沒有。
5.        如果用了24-50與直用TLS800, PQ是否後者較好?
用DSLR所得的質素應該比DC好得多，所以應對後期處理有利。不過，如果要玩處理，DC仔的RAW檔現時已不錯了(在比較高的ISO時所出現的noises除外)；況且對焦準和防震效能高仍然是DC的強項。兩者來一個取括，我就要準和防震了。
6.        何解選用30X EYEPIECE, 已不使用20X或ZOOM 20-60X ?
相信定焦會好一點；zoom就交由DC或DSLR lens做好了。

Peter上
Author: lwingkay    Time: 14/11/2009 17:54

The following shows the location of the painting being shot in Thread 1. The location of the camera in this shot is about 1.5m from that in Thread 1. In a nutshell, the painting is about 6m from the digiscoping setup.  Pete


  

[ Last edited by lwingkay at 14/11/2009 17:55 ]

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Author: aluha    Time: 14/11/2009 23:28

C-hing lwingkay 的解说很详细，对我们这些新手有莫大帮助，感谢！
可以做多个Setup-I比我吗？
Author: 觀鳥新丁    Time: 15/11/2009 00:16

Quote:
Original posted by lwingkay at 14/11/2009 17:54
The following shows the location of the painting being shot in Thread 1. The location of the camera in this shot is about 1.5m from that in Thread 1. In a nutshell, the painting is about 6m from the d ...
1.        三種組合, 你認為那一個較合用?
Setup I最好: focal length長，輕便，防震效率最高，有zoom，也是成像最銳利不過的。Setup III最易組合，在D200上有1200mm焦距；如果在操控手勢上熟練可以有得心應手的效果。Setup II原則上最好的，但因我用的是angled scope，拍攝時操控手勢更要純熟，所以最不好用。
(我想我先由SETUP 1開始吧, 但可否告知那處做DIY的?)

2.        SWA有DCA及DBC原廠接環, 何解不用? 要配合TAILOR-MADE配件?
我用的eyepieces是30x及40x兩款。它們的高度有少許不同。很可惜Swarovski的DCA的管身長度是無法調校的，在單用它時，相片的暗角就不太理想了。不過，如果你用20x-eyepiece，DCA暗角的問題應該不大。
用自制的adaptor的另一考慮是影直度。DCA可影直，但在轉度時，有可能偏離中軸，導至暗角。
致於DCB，因為它是不能用於直度的拍攝，我對它的興趣不大。
(即是訂定自製版已成定局)地

3.        用DC時, ZOOM到最WIDE, 有無黑圈內
Setup 1: CP8400的zoom range是24至85mm。如用30x時，大約在35mm開始，暗角就消失了，大約在80-85mm再輕微出現。如果用45x，暗角在35-40mm左右開始消失，不再重現。以上是我用單一個adaptor，將其管身鎖死在一個長度定位的結果。如果用上兩個adaptors，暗角應可進一步減少。
Setup II: 很小，在24-28mm有些微。
(即是以此組合去應付, 最多60X就極限了.

4.        而CP8400, 有否RC或電子快門?
沒有。
(我想用NIKON P6000, 不知師兄有何IDEA?)

5.        如果用了24-50與直用TLS800, PQ是否後者較好?
用DSLR所得的質素應該比DC好得多，所以應對後期處理有利。不過，如果要玩處理，DC仔的RAW檔現時已不錯了(在比較高的ISO時所出現的noises除外)；況且對焦準和防震效能高仍然是DC的強項。兩者來一個取括，我就要準和防震了。
(同意, 準及防震最重要, 後再來畫質)

6.        何解選用30X EYEPIECE, 已不使用20X或ZOOM 20-60X ?
相信定焦會好一點；zoom就交由DC或DSLR lens做好了。
(知道了)

謝謝.....
Author: 觀鳥新丁    Time: 15/11/2009 00:18

Quote:
Original posted by aluha at 14/11/2009 23:28
C-hing lwingkay 的解说很详细，对我们这些新手有莫大帮助，感谢！
可以做多个Setup-I比我吗？
ME TOO...............
Author: aluha    Time: 15/11/2009 01:50

今天拿了部好久没用的老机器Oylmpus E1 + 50-200，去到香港公园见到一班师兄追着小翠来拍，当场有位用600/4大炮，单画面还是觉得小，所以没有1000mm以上好难打鸟。
今天拍了几张原照无剪裁的，拍出来的小翠小得可怜 ，全用200端来拍，3/4系统再x2，既是400mm。



Author: 觀鳥新丁    Time: 15/11/2009 06:52

Quote:
Original posted by aluha at 15/11/2009 01:50
今天拿了部好久没用的老机器Oylmpus E1 + 50-200，去到香港公园见到一班师兄追着小翠来拍，当场有位用600/4大炮，单画面还是觉得小，所以没有1000mm以上好难打鸟。
今天拍了几张原照无剪裁的，拍出来的小翠小得可怜35516184ceb ...
我想600/4大炮的力量與DIGISCOPING有點分別...

尤其對於小弟技術不高的人, DSLR的科技令到鳥攝此題材的照片, 有很大的提升...

NIKON的CAM3500 (51點3D追焦), 新的MARK4 (39點), 新的AF演算方式...8FPS連拍, 非DC仔能力戰之...

故此, 要影相(著重畫質), DSLR會高一階, 但DC, 尤其60X的能力, 亦填補一些見都未必見到的SCENE...

以下兩張相, WIDE SHOOT那一張, 其實已組是500用在APS CAMERA, 即750MM

光線不好, 什麼都不好, 亦不夠近, CORP完之後.......NO EYE SEE...

還有另一張近距離的白胸....

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Author: lwingkay    Time: 15/11/2009 10:18

I   有關複制Setup I配件問題
我想相片所示已經一目了然，不過，如果我補充一下那個adaptor的結構和運作的資料，會有助你們組合自已的器材。遲些我會將資料補上。

II  Digiscoping的視場和景深
我很喜歡fieldscope的超級焦距所營造出來的平面感和短景深所付予背境的檬櫳感，很能突出主體，比DSLR的長砲所能產生的更富震喊感。以下於動植物公園用NikonP5100配30x拍的一張White-breasted kingfisher照。現場前景有籠網，後有樹幹，在超長焦距的處理下，一切都變得糢糊了。

Plate A


至於平視場，我想用Plate B的一張青蜓相表達一下我的感覺。在相中，雜亂的背景不單變成了一塊色板，很特別，而且在長焦下，視場變得很平。長焦將小小的的青蜓壓縮起來，平平的但卻魁宏地貼在畫面上。Plate C是我用長焦的macro鏡的另外一幅青蜓相，氣氛就來得不那麼強烈了。順帶一提，Plate B是側光但有點背，Plate C是順方向散射光。

Plate B



Plate C
Author: aluha    Time: 15/11/2009 13:57

期待Lwingkay兄的adaptor結構和運作的資料，先谢了！
背光营做出来的气氛相当好，如果能加上有序的背景就更好了。
Author: lwingkay    Time: 15/11/2009 16:41     Subject: Trial run with Setup II: D200 + AFD 24-50mm Nikkor + Swar 80 HD ATS and 30x

A trial run was carried out on Friday afternoon for the above setup and the following record shots were taken in Shing Mun Valley Park.

The shutter was released by finger.

Plate D -  f5, 1/20sec, ISO640, focal length about 1600 [Calculation: 38mm (Full frame's focal length) x 1.4 (APS cropping factor) x 30 (eyepiece magnification)]

   
Plate E   f4.5, 1/80sec, ISO400, focal lenth 1050mm [Calculation: 25mm (Full frame's focal length) x 1.4 (APS cropping factor) x 30x (eyepiece magnification)]



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Author: 觀鳥新丁    Time: 15/11/2009 16:59

Quote:
Original posted by aluha at 15/11/2009 13:57
期待Lwingkay兄的adaptor結構和運作的資料，先谢了！
背光营做出来的气氛相当好，如果能加上有序的背景就更好了。
熱烈期待
Author: 觀鳥新丁    Time: 15/11/2009 17:00

Quote:
Original posted by lwingkay at 15/11/2009 16:41
A trial run was carried out on Friday afternoon for the above setup and the following record shots were taken in Shing Mun Valley Park.

The shutter was released by finger.

Plate D -  f5, 1/20sec, IS ...
我開始亦明白多一點....
Author: lwingkay    Time: 15/11/2009 18:28     Subject: Setup I : Adaptor for Linking Eyepiece with DC

Hoped that the following sequence of photos can show how the adaptor works:

1    Setup I

2   Components of Adaptor   

From left to right (excluding the black ring plate that connects this adaptor with the DC's adaptal ring.)

Outer Tube with internal screw furrows for length adjustment -->

      Inner Tube with (a) external screw furrows that bite with the Outer Tube for tube length adjustment and (b) a recess for accommodating Eyepiece Clamping Ring -->

                  Eyepiece Clamping Ring for fastening the whole adaptor unit with the eyepiece and linking with Inner Tube
3.  Assembling the components

a   Eyepiece Clamping Ring

b


c   Inner Tube and Outer Tube   [Sorry that I have not unscrewed them to show how they actually look like. The tube length has been calibrated for my eyepieces and it takes some time to calibrate it if I unscrew them.]

d    Note the recess in Outer Tube, the groove in Inner Tube and the two screws on Outer Ring that jam on the groove of Inner Tube for the purpose of stopping centriful rotation.

e



4.    Mounting on L-bracket

a





b

[ Last edited by lwingkay at 1/02/2010 12:08 ]
Author: papago    Time: 15/11/2009 21:37

精彩
lwingkay 兄提供的資料可以集結成冊出書了

[ Last edited by papago at 15/11/2009 21:39 ]
Author: lwingkay    Time: 15/11/2009 21:42

1.   Shots taken with Setup III (Swarovski 80 HD ATS + TLS800) in low light conditions: Taking shots of Oranged-headed Thrush in Kowloon Park last week

Please click the following link for the photos: http://www.hkbws.org.hk/BBS/viewthread.php?tid=9465&extra=page%3D1

2.   Shots taken with Setup III in better light conditions

a.   Daurian Redstart

曝光:0.017 sec (1/60)
Aperture:f/9.5




b   Daurian Redstart
曝光:0.006 sec (1/160)
Aperture:f/9.5




3.   Shots taken with Setup I (Swar 80 HD ATS + Eyepiece + DC) in different light conditions

a.   With Nikon's P5100 and Swar's 30x-eyepiece in a low light condition
曝光:0.143 sec (1/7)
Aperture:f/2.9





b.   With Nikon's CP8400 and a 30x-eyepiece in a low light condition

曝光:0.25 sec (1/4)
Aperture:f/3.5






c.   With Nikon's CP8400 and a 45x-eyepiece in an overcast condition
曝光:0.067 sec (1/15)
Aperture:f/5.1




[ Last edited by lwingkay at 15/11/2009 21:45 ]
Author: 觀鳥新丁    Time: 15/11/2009 23:50

Quote:
Original posted by lwingkay at 15/11/2009 21:42
1.   Shots taken with Setup III (Swarovski 80 HD ATS + TLS800) in low light conditions: Taking shots of Oranged-headed Thrush in Kowloon Park last week

Please click the following link for the photos: ...
以光學去比較,30X較45X優嗎?
Author: lwingkay    Time: 16/11/2009 01:28

Quote:
Original posted by 觀鳥新丁 at 15/11/2009 23:50


以光學去比較,30X較45X優嗎?
I don't know. I am more inclined to say that both of them are excellent in glass and optical designs; however, when they are put to use, there are other factors that affect the results of images:
a) How far the object is from your gears
The further away, the worse the image. One reasons being the presence of particulate matters in the air. In this regards, the 45x will be in a disadvantageous position by virtue of its longer focal length for shooting more distant objects.
b) The optical performance at the different sections of the zoom lens of your DC
If you use a 30x and you are going to strike for a longer reach, you will use the telephotographic end of your DC zoom lens more. If the optical quality of your zoom lens is no good at all there, the image produced will be undesirable. From this consideration, a 45x working on a DC zoom lens with a good optical quality at the mid range will produce images better than a 30x if the same distance of stretch is desired.

The time when I was deciding which make to go for, I did visit a number of websites for reports on optical performances of the different eyepieces and fieldscopes. Results were pretty divided, I have to say. So, I did not bother that much about the so-called reports that were posted in the virtual world of the web. I visited a few major showrooms to take a look and have a hands-on with their gears.

Pete

(Postscripts: It would be better you phone the showroom and make an appointment before marching up there. The guys there said they had to prepare for your visit, e.g. setting up gears according to your special request.)

[ Last edited by lwingkay at 16/11/2009 01:43 ]
Author: 觀鳥新丁    Time: 16/11/2009 07:25

Quote:
Original posted by lwingkay at 16/11/2009 01:28


I don't know. I am more inclined to say that both of them are excellent in glass and optical designs; however, when they are put to use, there are other factors that affect the results of images:
a ...
買望遠鏡那麼大陣象, 最多兩萬元, 會似VIP服務, 如果買部2萬元單反, 個SALES都係當普通料....

確實, 看得多不同WEBSITE, 愈確得不知所向, 就此處為例, 都有不少評測, PA兄用較平的設備, 都能影到好相, 而明兄為了有更好的BACKUP, 用了KOWA...

師兄又用番SWA, SWA單筒, 我都試望過, 成像很好, 光通不錯, 細節都保留得幾好, 號稱99.8 - 99.9 通光量.... -273度的30層COATING....

確係聽看來都幾勁....

另請教SETUP 1及2所用的L-BRACKET是相同嗎? 那麼, 請教DC 在ZOOM時, 鏡頭會向前突出, 如果處理, 先預留足夠空間, 讓它伸縮?

[ Last edited by 觀鳥新丁 at 16/11/2009 07:27 ]
Author: 觀鳥新丁    Time: 17/11/2009 23:14

請問I兄, 你買SWA是何時的事? 價格都幾大分野....

[ Last edited by 觀鳥新丁 at 17/11/2009 23:44 ]
Author: pitarhk    Time: 18/11/2009 00:10

Quote:
Original posted by 觀鳥新丁 at 17/11/2009 23:14
請問I兄, 你買SWA是何時的事? 價格都幾大分野....
路過答下訕:
我8月響好世界買$19300(STS 80HD+30x)
Author: 觀鳥新丁    Time: 18/11/2009 07:28

Quote:
Original posted by pitarhk at 18/11/2009 00:10

路過答下訕:
我8月響好世界買$19300(STS 80HD+30x)
for bird viewing only ....
Author: lwingkay    Time: 18/11/2009 12:54

Dear Pitarhk and 觀鳥新丁,
A separate PM has been sent to your account as regards the prices of some of Swarovski's digiscopic equipment.
Regards,
Pete
Author: 觀鳥新丁    Time: 18/11/2009 21:32

Quote:
Original posted by lwingkay at 18/11/2009 12:54
Dear Pitarhk and 觀鳥新丁,
A separate PM has been sent to your account as regards the prices of some of Swarovski's digiscopic equipment.
Regards,
Pete
thank you thank you



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