Jonathmartinez

thinfor,
the picture of your Richard's Pipit is very interesting, it is a first winter bird that had renew some of its median covert, and the pattern of this fresh MC looks perfect for Blyth's Pipit in my opinion.
Adult Richard's Pipit shows very pointed triangular dark center of MC, where Blyth's Pipit shows very square one and more clear cut, this can only be said on first winter until they start to moult their MC, and only shape of the central MC are reliable as it is the case on your bird.
Other features seems to fit well Blyth's Pipit, short and pointed bill, shorter tail, shorter necked and better proportionned bird compare with Richard's Pipit,  but this has to be taken with caution with "sinensis" ssp of RP.
Opinion of other is welcome, but to me it is one.

All the best,

Jonathan

Jonathmartinez

So only the first 3 pictures posted by Manson concern the same bird that to me is a Blyth's Pipit, all the other one are different birds and all Richard's Pipit.

Regarding to James comments :
"According to Robson (2000), Brazil (2009), and Svensson (2009), Richard's has a long hindclaw, much longer than Blyth'. The hindclaw on the photographed bird is extremely long. Which would make it a Richard's. In addition, Svensson describes the median covert differences as a "tendency", by which I guess he means there is some overlap."

On Pipit and Wagtails from Alström (2003), measurments of hindclaw is given for RP (including ssp sinensis) and BP, and show a clear overlap, RP (including sinensis) is 11,2-23,9 and BP is 8,8-15,4.
On our concerned bird, I won't said that the hind claw is particularly long or short, so in my opinion this feature is not diagnostic as it could be in the overlap zone.
It is said that BP Hindclaw is more curved than RP, I found it hard to judge, but the LV bird is quite curved.



In the same book, it is said that : " first winter can only be identified to species by the pattern of the median coverts if at least one or two central ones have been renewed". A plate with the variation of shape of the dark center of median covert of both species is given, and the bird from LV show a very typical BP median covert shape. That is in my opinion by far the best feature to ID them.

Especially when other features fit wel :
- the bill shape for BP have to be more short and pointed than RP and with a deep base, I found myself that this vary a lot in RP so it has to be taken with caution but the following link allow to make his own opinion :
here some links of several RP for comparaison :
http://orientalbirdimages.org/se ... _ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/se ... _ID=&pagesize=1
here some links of several BP :
http://orientalbirdimages.org/se ... _ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/se ... _ID=&pagesize=1

- The overall shape of BP remind more a small pipit species, and is better proportionned than RP, this is clearly shown between the different pictures posted by Manson, but it is better appreciated in the field.

- upperparts of BP is more heavily streaked and contrasted than BP, but RP sinensis may also be the same. And there is some other subtle plumage differencies hard to judge on this picture, light ears covert slighty more rufous than upperpart, and upperparts more greyish tan RP, but hard to judge on worn bird.

- BP have shorter tarsus than RP, but there is a very thin overlap. But by comparing the different birds in Manson post, the first bird show clearly shorter tarsus than birds in other pics

- an interesting feature is the difference on the moulting time, it seems that in october, many BP would have not replace any or very few median covert, where RP would have replace more of them. This is more an indication than a feature, but in this bird it fit better BP than RP.
This is also in my opinion why Blyth's Pipit are overlooked here in the South, because in absence of any median covert moulted then the only reliable feature is the call.

Jonathmartinez

I don't like these long arguing but I'm in, so here we go :

"- bill is still too thick for Blyth's"

I don't see any difference between Manson bird and the one on the following link : http://orientalbirdimages.org/se ... _ID=&pagesize=1
"- crown and back not well streaked"

per my understanding all the plumage differencies are quite subtle and some RP may show similar pattern to BP, especially RP sinensis

"- supercilium long and contrasting"
I'm not quite sure this is diagnostic, especially if compare with other pics on the web, this one for example : http://orientalbirdimages.org/se ... _ID=&pagesize=1
to me the one on this pic is even more long and contrasting than the LV bird

"- median covert pattern not as contrasting as in Blyth's (interesting to see how with an alteration of photo angle, the dark centre of the adult median coverts are actually triangular. Also the color of median covert tip is buff, not whitish as in Blyth's)"
I think I haven't gave enough details about the only adult median covert can be seen, because in my opinion only this feather allow to ID this bird correctly. BP adult median covert are first more clear cut and lack the blury edge RP median covert are showing. Secondly fresh moulted BP median covert are not whitish but pale buffy where fresh RP median covert are more rufous, this is clearly shown between the different birds pics Manson has posted, especially the 6th picture. There is clearly a color difference between this two birds on tip of fresh median covert. Secondly the shape of the adult median covert that are more square shaped on BP and triangular on RP, this can appear a bit subbtle on this pic, but again by comparing the shape of the different pics posted by Manson, the shape of fresh MC of  the first bird differs totally from the other birds. But thirdly and more important the small tip of the dark center of the median covert do not reach the tip of the MC and leave a large buffy area between the dark center tip and the MC tip, where in RP it the dark center tip usually go much closier to the MC tip. This is again shown very well and is in my opinion diagnostic of Blyth's. Just try to find any pics of RP with such MC pattern.

"- claw is too long"
As said earlier there is a zone of overlap between both sp, to me it looks just a bit longer than the hind toe and therefor can not be consider as very long.

"- tail is too long"
just by doing some quick comparaison between lenght of tertial and lenght of tail behind wing tip in picture of both sp taken with quite the same angle show that this bird is quite short tail.

"- jizz is not reminiscent of smaller Pipits with long neck and long tail"
this is usually hard to judge on picture since it hardly depend on bid posture at the time the picture was taken, but the difference on the lenght of tarsus is to me quite obvious between each picture posted by Manson.

For sure a nice recording of the call would have taken any doubt, but to me I'm still pretty convinced that it is a Blyth.

All the best,

Jonathan