Andy-li

26-11-2010 Mai Po

D300 AFS-600II 14e
1/640s F6.3 iso400





[ Last edited by Andy-li at 26/11/2010 23:51 ]

ypakwai

WOW..........

Stonechat

Very nice photos...

kkitty

Nice shots & great find!

Andiona

Wow!!!!!!!!

Super Find & Excellent Shot.

Congratulation Master Andy00

[ Last edited by Andiona at 26/11/2010 22:53 ]

oLDcaR

WAH WAH WAH !!!!!!!!!!!!! Good find .. 00

lchunfai

Good find ~~!!!

nelson

Great find, Andy !

Andy-li

Thanks for all reply!


Andy

cfrankie

Thank You la Andy !!!

twallace

Great find~~ Congratulations!!!

kmike

Dear Andy Please could you let us know where at Mai Po you saw this excellent bird!

Many thanks
Mike

[ Last edited by kmike at 27/11/2010 06:22 ]

Andy-li

Hi,Mike
Yesterday morning I saw it on pond#20
good lucky!

Andy

John Holmes

Great find !

CYLAM

Thankyou la, 00.

kmike

Apparently the bird was seen for just 20 minutes on Friday morning at Pond 20.

There was no sign this morning, but the Bean Geese were on Pond 3, 2 Gadwall were on Pond 5 and a Grey Headed Lapwing was on the drained geiwai - No 7 I think.

Cheers
Mike

wleepoin

Excellent Shot !! Great find : )

Cheers,
PWMK

kkoel

Beautiful bird, beautiful shots!!

Maybe the male would be following her footsteps and turning up too at MP? XD

lrichard

Well found indeed, but the news of such a rarity came out really late.

Birds of this quality should be phoned into Birdline and posted on the HKBWS website very fast.

Richard

ajohn

Maybe Andy did not have access to the internet to post pictures until the evening and/or did not have the phone number for Birdline (or had no phone signal at Mai Po!). If the bird was only present for 20 minutes, it's perhaps immaterial anyway - it could have been reported almost immediately after observation, and no-one could have got there!

Congatulations to Andy and thank you for posting these pictures so that we are all aware of this lovely bird, and have the opportunity to look for it at Mai Po, in case it is still present.

[ Last edited by ajohn at 27/11/2010 23:03 ]

Andy-li

Hi,Richard :
After shooting for the every morning, I have to return the company to work make a living,
so can't let you know as soon as possible, I am sorry ...!


Dear,ajohn
Thanks your understanding, and be considerate for others to stand .

Thanks again..!


Andy

Andiona

Quote:

Original posted by Andy-li at 28/11/2010 01:36
Hi,Richard :
After shooting for the every morning, I have to return the company to work make a living,
so can't let you know as soon as possible, I am sorry ...!


Dear,ajohn
Thanks your understandin ...

Support You Andy

EricB

Congratulations on a  great find and great pictures. A bird like this is restricted by habitat and extremely likely not to wander too much further south. The money is on it still being in the area ; all deep ponds are potential sites - be patient& persistent!Don't panic. Good luck.
e-Ric

msamuel

Thank lrichard for the reminder, thank ajohn for his understanding, and more importantly, thank Andy-li for capturing the golden moment and sharing the photo so that we all have a chance to view.

wgeoff

I think we must show Richard some understanding too.

He maintains a very high quality Birdline service and I can imagine his frustration when, having reported only a Woodcock on Friday, he wakes up on Saturday to discover there was a third HK record at Mai Po.

Great photos and a good find Andy.

PS in case the numbers are not well known, the English Birdline is 2667 4537 and the Chinese Birdline is 2465 6690. They are on the first page of the Bulletin. A call to either one is enough.

[ Last edited by wgeoff at 28/11/2010 13:14 ]

lpaul

Also frustrating for those of us who at or near Mai Po on Friday morning!  Whilst I understand that work takes priority, I don't think a single phone call to birdline to get the news out quickly is too much to ask.

CYLAM

I think most people were accepted encourage rather than a parent guide.

I also photoed this bird at that moment, what I think? Oh.. a rare visitor, contact my friends at once.

Why not HKBWS? Sorry, I didn’t have this mind.

Am I doing wrong? I don’t think so.

I think this is an opportunity to let us know that we are encourage to report.

Maybe I will do this next time, but what is the HL no?

Regards
LAM CY

wgeoff

As posted above (a later edit)

PS in case the numbers are not well known, the English Birdline is 2667 4537 and the Chinese Birdline is 2465 6690. They are on the first page of the Bulletin. A call to either one is enough.

[ Last edited by wgeoff at 28/11/2010 14:46 ]

tsheunglai

Dear all

and espeicially for those who have the luck to find the good bird Smew.

Richard has been serving as honorary recorder (a prestigious post next to the president to many of us) for the society for years (which involves a lot of hard quality work) and is at present in charge of the English hotline which has always responded at first opportunity to any report of good finds.

I, though been members for over 20 years, will not give a second thought to follow his comment
and advice in respect of him for his posts and services and experience.

I understand that there are members in the society, especially those among new members who respect
no one. But to push the society forward, do show respect to my advice.

Sharing is one of the strong reasons why I been and still a member of the society for more than 2 score of years. To tell you the truth, I never fail to report to the hotline when I've found a good bird.

Some migrants stay for days but a lot stay just for hours and sometimes even less, adding great
weight for immediate reporting. Don't just tell you friends.

To give an example. On Friday I found a Woodcock at Tai Po Kau. I reported to Richard first for it was the first I believe to be found wintering in HK this year and second it is good to let everyone know Tai Po Kau is a favourite place for Woodcock to winter although according to Viney that the number is declining.

I would consider myself neglecting my duty to report if in my opinion the bird(s) get the merit to be known. I also consider members who do not report manifesting some degree of selfishness.

M Kwan who found the Rustic bunting and did not report fail my criterion stated above. I can't stay
awake to watch the forum at 1 am to see his photos.

Don't do unto others what you do not want to be done unto you.

Let's be obliged.

S L Tai

[ Last edited by tsheunglai at 28/11/2010 14:52 ]

tsheunglai

Dear all

Sense of belonging includes the knowledge about the society. Please especially for those who
are new try to learn basic things about our society, including adding telephone nos of the society to your mobile phone list.

Let's all do better next time.

S L Tai

CYLAM

Thanks to wgeoff.

As repeated my first paragraph at #27 & thanks to those contribute to the HKBWS.

Dear SL Tai:

Your sound are loud but I don’t know what’s the mean, can you said clear?
1: Who respect no one?

Thanks for reminding the new about the society rule.

Telephone nos. of HKBWS is a must, not for sure (no offense). How about the telephone nos. of Café de Carol, it’s depends.

I’m not a bird tick lover. So, I wonder that it is a good or bad luck for me to see this bird. >.<

Regards
LAM CY

[ Last edited by overover at 29/11/2010 09:35 ]

Andy-li

Andiona,Thanks, my friend.

Wgeoff, Thanks,your Information.

Hi,Paul
1. ajoan said same as, I not have birdline phone no.

2. I do not know its identity before home from work, check relevant books found it is Smew.

Bird photography is just a pastime for me, did not expect so many things need to care.
I really do not know, the morning shooting, home from work the evening put on forum, Information transfer is not fast enough,make you feel unhappy.( Pls, everyone has their own best workflow )

Although I am bit unhappy, for those of you that strict requirement, But I also understand your position,if the next opportunity, I will know how to choice deal with and reduce this noise.

Disputes arising from my post, I’m so sorry..!


Thanks again for all reply!




Andy LI

CYLAM

Finally, I think people like to share photo in here should receive appreciation rather than blame.

An unexpected stunning replied.

brendank

Congratulations, Andy Li on a fantastic find and great pictures!

With regards to rare bird notification, we should remember than in this case in the 20 minute (that the bird was there) no one would have had time to have gotten this bird.

I think the HKBWS though would do well to develop and post a clear procedure for fast notification of birds.  I think the current system could be better centralized.  Currently, some birds seem to be reported to the birdline but not the forum, or reported to forum but not the to birdline. Furthermore some birds seem to reported only in the birding blog but nowhere else.

If clear instructions on which species and how to report them if and when they are found were clearly posted, I think that would help potential frustration in the future.

ddavid

It seems to me that many comments on this (slightly over-heated?) thread have been based upon a misunderstanding -  although, of course, I understand the frustrations of those who would have liked to have known about the Smew earlier. I have no idea who Andy is, apart from the fact that his (very good) photographs of birds are posted here regularly. From this it is perhaps natural to assume (as I did) that he knows a fair amount about the birds that he is photographing and is aware of the rarity value etc. of the diferent species that occur in HK.

However, I think it is clear from his comments - which he didn't really need to make; why should he have to justify himself? - that he didn't identify the bird as a Smew until he returned home from work on Friday evening. And after he'd posted the photos on the forum and when others had seen the photos on Saturday morning and asked where he had seen the Smew, he promptly replied that he had seen the bird on Pond 20.

Which, to me, is a far more transparent response than some other photographers, who are perhaps better informed than Andy, sometimes make in this forum.

dave

[ Last edited by ddavid at 28/11/2010 23:10 ]

kmatthew

I am sorry Mr Tai that I am NOT as enthusiastic as you about the society.(thus i dont think having the hotline number on my phone is a basic requirement for being a member?) I don't really see how I, whom came home at 12:30, got out my photos and posted the news on the internet can be considered irresponsible or selfish. I take birding as a very relaxing activity to ease my tensions on work, but when I have to consider so many things during birdwatching I might just as well quit.

[ Last edited by kmatthew at 28/11/2010 23:24 ]

EricB

I’ve learnt 10 things from these threads:

1.        Few people are truly grateful for what they have
2.        Humans always want more than they’ve got.
3.        An inclusive society best serves the purposes of birds and conservation
4.        A dictatorial  society has little to do with birds and more to do with people.
5.        The society risks losing the good will of photographers and other people who enjoy nature but aren’t obsessed with their next tick or your next dip.
6.        E –forums have their place but they can ruffle feathers faster and more effectively than a raptor at a wader roost.
7.        Andy has been generous to share his wonderful photos and didn’t waste any time getting them publicised once he identified the bird. What more can you ask of any birder.!
8.        Twitching can be poisonous
9.        People hate apologising.
10.        Adult female Smew have black  lores and first winter birds have brownish lores.

Cheers,

eRic

lpaul

Andy,

First off (and I should have said this in my first post for which I apologise - if only to confound eRic!), these are fantastic photos and congratulations on finding such a good bird.

Secondly, as I saw the very first one years ago, this (for me at least) is not about twitching or dipping or my HK list (although I would be the first the admit I love adding to my HK list!!).  I just really like Smew and would have happily gone to look for this bird on Friday if I had known it was there.

I also understand that not everyone is a birdwatcher, and that for many photographing birds is their primary interest.

That is all great and I understand that.  But it is frustrating to see fantastic photos of a great bird that was I was only several km away from on Friday!!  It would also have been nice if the location of the bird (e.g. a pond number) had been posted, given that Mai Po is rather large!!!

So I can only encourage anyone who finds rare bird to put the news out quickly either birdline or any birder (my mobile is 90175435 if that helps!), and this may only be to say something along the lines of there being an 'odd duck on Pond 20'. At least then others can have the opportunity to follow up qucikly, and if proves to be nothing of interest, there is no harm done.

So Andy, I don't think you did anything wrong here, and if it seems like some are saying you did (myself included) I think that is simply they would have liked things to have happened differently.

Finally, one or two of the comments here are somewhat difficult to understand, and I'm not sure these are helping the situation...

Paul Leader

[ Last edited by lpaul at 29/11/2010 08:47 ]

ajohn

I agree with Paul that the best response may have been to highlight the presence of an 'odd duck on Pond 20' to others - perhaps to Mai Po staff? That way, someone could have had the opportunity to check the bird and see whether it was something unusual (as in this case). A similar situation happened with the Great Thick-knee and Black Scoter (thanks to Bena for both!), and longer ago also with the Siberian Crane. And no doubt also other birds.

Sorry if I previously came across as abrupt to Richard. Like everyone else, I appreciate the hard work he does on the Birdline and can understand his frustration at not hearing about the bird. I responded because I didn't think the delay in posting photos was excessive or unexplainable (i.e. Andy wanted time to check the ID and access the website), and because I didn't want to deter Andy from continuing to post on the website.

HFCheung

I notice this post this morning.  Here is my view.  Sorry to reply late.

1. Congretulation to Andy to photograph this rare HK bird.  Please continue sharing with us on this forum.
2. Reporting to birdlines and forum is encouraged, but this is not compulsory.  Birdwatchers decide how much he/she want to report.
3. I hope the society will be very happy to help camera-assisted birdwatchers (photographers) to learn more about birds.  Be friendly to each other, all will win in the end.

HF Cheung

wgeoff

OK, honour is satisfied all round.

Let's put an end to the matter and get on with birdwatching, bird photography and postings on the website and elsewhere.

And finally, great find and photos Andy. Keep it up.

[ Last edited by wgeoff at 29/11/2010 14:58 ]

Andy-li

Yah.! honour is satisfied all round.

Richard , Paul
I remember your phone nos .
Hope to next time give you a call , will make you happy..( Smew-Male )....^_^

In here special thanks ,LAM  CY  
I was able to shoot it ,because of your reminder


Thanks again for all reply and comments !


Andy Li

mchristine

我是白秋沙鴨噹噹，
無心闖入米埔20號塘，
卻幸運地遇上了Andy 哥，
將我倩影攝入鳥友心窩，
亦泛起了茶柸裹的小風波，
下次重臨盼攜同我哥兒朗朗。

Quote:

Original posted by Andy-li at 29/11/2010 17:12
Yah.! honour is satisfied all round.

Richard , Paul
I remember your phone nos .
Hope to next time give you a call , will make you happy..( Smew-Male )....^_^

In here special thanks ,LAM  CY  
I was  ...

[ Last edited by mchristine at 30/11/2010 13:10 ]

jacwu

You such a lucky guy!

tsheunglai

Dear all

The first and most important principle here is that every member who posts his photos here has
undisputable right to decide when to do so.
And among the many birdwatchers I know there is none who is a crazy twitcher - one who would rush to any place within the colony on getting news of a good bird found.

Under the above premises I now elaborate on my past messages here which prove to have aroused such
heated comments and strong opinions. I am truly delighted that most reponses are honest and direct
from heart.

Next I must emphasize that I have no personal axes to grind here. I quoted M Kwan's Rustic bunting simply it was one of most recent photos posted here. I will not and would never guess the 'whys' and 'hows' and guess the circumstances under which the birds are photoed. What I want and will never waver from is Heart of Sharing.

I appreciate good photos and I have showered my praises on ones which truly delighted me.
But I am also from top to bottom a birdwatcher who has taken up the hobby as to identify birdwatching
as my personal being - a lover of nature and freedom. But I don't have the time to try my luck everywhere and on 24-hour basis. Any alas, I have no great luck in past several years to have twitched a great bird. But my heart of sharing is always here - one of the reasons I set up the birding topic
of Shing Mun/Lead Mine Pass. For other true hearts of sharing let me quote some.

John Holmes found a Speckled piculet and posted his photo, reported it to the Birdline (presumably to our English hotline and showed others where he found it. I loved to see the bird and would even want to be informed when John was still on the spot. The latter wish is strictly personal and I am at present not on such good terms as guarentee such helpful and on-the-spot message, though I remember I once phoned John when I seemed to have seen a Drongo cuckoo at Mai Po right away (I really saw one of its inner tail feathers clearly barred!) and also YT Yu. Graham Talbot found the latest
Red-footed booby and sent me a personal phone message right away - imagine how kind he was
as he was at work in Dubai and probably he was to go to other engagements given that he was just
on short holiday on that day. And I must thank Richard here on his unfailing effort to relate all good news right away.

Rarity by definition is something not found as one would have wished to be able to come across his path everyday. But will my fellow birders who have such great luck pass on his finds as soon as time allows. The quickest way is press a few numbers on your phone and give a brief report. Just a half-minute and your reporting business is finished.

But such small act of kindness needs proper habitual reponse to support. That why I ended my second message here by advocating the betterment of tomorrow - for looking forward is always my spirtit.

Someone like M Kwan I apparently have offended I would never expect personal favour. But public spirit is badly needed at present among the birding community. Therefore don't just post your photos here. Report it! State your doubts and reservation
as to the bird's identity and say you post your photos later. Nobody will blame anyone for mistakes.
But it at least raise the awareness of the birding community.

Last word about Dr H F Cheung's comment here. Nobody including me denies anybody's freedom to report or not report. I'm not such idiot as to deny anyone's basic right of freedom! But I must say again I don't want frustration expressed here - oftener than what I would have wished to be minimized by the means and way I have suggested here.

S L Tai

tsheunglai

Dear all

I hereby withdraw my previous comment that 'I also consider members who do not report manifesting some degree of selfishness'. There are different ways to express the same truth. Mine perhaps has stung some weak hearts.

The change now is 'I also consider members who do not report properly on such occasions lacking some degree of true public spirit.'

Also please consider me kind and friendly for criticising like a harsh teacher for I have
great expectations of my fellow members, especially those I have seen all the years from a young
boy to one who now have mastered basic birding skills, excluding M Kwan, of course. He for one will be blessed with lasting peace that he would never be mentioned in any of my public utterances.

He would receive a ready apology from me if he should see fit to demand one.

S L Tai

kmatthew

tsheunglai

Dear all

Please note the words I said 'some degree of selfishness' are definitely a comment of fairly mild form. For, you see, from Richard Dawkins books saying we are genetically 'doomed' to be selfish beings if only for the sake of human survival, individually or as a species. And it is undeniable that everybody is selfish, to some degree. Anyone who can show me I am wroing?I I never blamed anybody for not reporting. I advocated proper reporting, which at the moment a consensus.

If anyone thinks I have blamed, then answer my following questions. Blaming means fault finding. Did I ever say under the topic anyone irresponsible? I only pointed out situations could have improved, and I did make recommendations, positive ones - good habit, public spirit, sense and spirit of sharing and care. This is 'software side' of things and 'hardware side' of things have been taken care of by others like G Welch (apology for wrong spelling) here. I set standards, which may look high for someone. Is it fault finding? I did set and quote good examples? Are my examples bad or simply not up to par? If this is not encouragement, what else will serve the purpose?
I did point out someone who showed his photos at a time too late? Did he or they really think they
were reporting when they were working at the photo-posting process? It is definitely a desire of someone
else sharing the photos with them. What else? Is this action amounts to something more like a hunter who
show his friends his harvest (good shots albeit camera being the shooting tool)? I won't offer my answer
here. But please think.


The lot and majority of readers of this discussions and participants have once benefitted from both the Birdlines, including seeing the Speckled piculet found by Mike Kilburn who kindly showed us the best location and time of meeting it. So could this kind of good will and consideration to others be extended to more birders/photographers? I mean pay back their kindness!Sorry I am a bit angry. We are all adults (any teens here?)and should not receive praise and encouragement more than necessary. Overprasing is in fact amounts to telling someone being inadequate in someway, something akin to fault finding (like saying 'Good boy, good boy' repeatedly means he/it is not good enough/needs setting up good habits/correction)? Am I wrong here? Anyone who like being encouraged in this way? Tell me.

It is a time for true and sincere reflections and planning for improvements upon system of reporting, showing also its short term and long term benefits to the whole society. I definitely will start a new topic on the system and make offerings shortly.

I hereby challenge anybody who accused me of blaming show me evidence while my presentations are all
here for all to read and examine.

S L Tai

[ Last edited by tsheunglai at 2/12/2010 13:42 ]

sdavid

Please stop the rants on this thread.  I keep thinking that there is an update on the status on the Smew, hoping to see news of a re-sighting. Instead I just see this gibberish which is completely unrelated.

Perhaps you could start up a new thread to continue your views, then individuals can choose to read it if they are so inclined.

Thankyou

(Great shots of the Smew btw Andy-li, I love the one of the Little Grebe chasing it!)

tsheunglai

Dear C Y

Apology to discovering your PMs a bit late and as I'm also technically inadequate to answer you by PMs,
I've to resort to doing it openly.

I'm unable and won't examine the whole 'Finding the smew' affair in detail, especially the motive side of you the finders. In fact I'm more disappointed with the response I got under the topic when I quoted the Rustic bunting photos as an example of inadequacy or not good enough as regards proper reporting.

Personally I felt no disappointment or frustration for the Smew or Rustic bunting not being also seen by me. I did'nt make enquiries nor set foot to the places where the birds were found. Honestly I'm a bit
disappointed with people about the way they handled good finds, not necessarily the above two. In the past two years I was most thankful that my age (meaning more time), new and selective learning and observation afford me continual growth of wisdom which I treasure most and far above pure bird watching and seeing new birds (you may refer to what I said under the Shing Mun/ Lead Mine Pass topic).

I'm hereby thankful that I've seen more than 400 species (not photographing) through my luck of associating with some of the best members of the society and through of course my good skills and
some luck of my own. If there are more it is just 'kam seung tim fa' (one more medal to the 'Victoria
Cross' I've won).

It is not uncommon among young or new members who want to show that their own way(s) are superior
and ignore tradition and forgetful of seniors' contribution in building the society to the present
status and their advices are seldom heeded enough. Are these disrespectfulness?

Is smoking and speaking like loudspeakers and interferring with each other and lack of willingness
of sharing space in a crowded birdhide (every photographer taking up the centre of one of the windows and
won't buck a bit for new-commers are more and more often seen at Mai Po and other hot spots) strongly
indicating a lack of spirit of sharing (is this selfishness?). All these people I can hardly call by
names, not faces I'm familiar with. And they seem wanting to continue with their own way!

I say again we all need improvement or/and adaptations
as a group of people having the good luck or 'yuen fan' to be memebers of HKBWS, not just joining it for the sake of getting a Mai Po reserve permit and Boardwalk permit and/or good photos.

Remember the society has oriented itself towards better and better conservation of birds.

I say here that I hate naming anyone. You and others are not bad members and indeed far from being so
(to tell you the truth I occasionally approach the birds a bit too closely and thereby behaving a bit badly and I excuse myself for suffering from ageing eyes, and I by profession used to talk loudly to forty or more loud people and still inadverdently talk in an undesirable volume to the exasperation of some 'kwailos'), but I daresay not experienced enough and know enough how to handle your good finds properly or in the best interest of the society.

Am I asking too much? Forgive me for speaking from my heart or speaking the truth.

S L Tai