Ken

12 Sept 2010
Fung Yuen

A record photo.In Koo Ka Yuen.
And not 100% sure.



[ Last edited by Ken at 13/09/2010 23:18 ]

gary

The Blue Throated Flycatcher recently found in TPK is pale orange in upper throat
if no further justification, it looks more like Hainan Blue.
Stint yellow on breast is not unusual for this sp.

Gary

brendank

It seems to me certainly unusual to see so much orange on the breast of Hainan Blue--perhaps just an artifact of the photo and the angle.  If this bird is a Hainan Blue and has so much orange, I wonder if some birds could even have significantly more orange on the breast.  The problem is that for Blue-throated (dialilaema) the reddish should form a more of a reddish V on the throat which is lacking here.  This might indicate one of the other races (now separate species I believe) of Blue-throated Flycatcher but they would be very unlikely to occur here.

wleepoin

Would it suggest to be a rubeculoides sub-specie of B-T-Fly from West Myanmar ? Though a bit far, but who knows !
Let's see what the expert say.

Cheers,
PWMK

brendank

I was thinking of rubeculoides but I think for now I would still assume it was a Hainan Blue.  Would be great to see more photos though if they were available.

[ Last edited by brendank at 14/09/2010 13:08 ]

ajohn

Unlike the other recent Blue-throated, this bird seems to have an all-blue throat. Rubeculoides is the only subspecies of Blue-throated to have an all-blue throat, but should be brighter orange on the breast than this bird (with the orange more clearly defined). Chinese Blue (glaucicomans) and (I think) Blue-throated dialilaema would have a much wider orange wedge, easily visible from this angle. The orange wedge on Blue-throated klossi can be difficult to see, but I think would still be visible at this angle.

Based on this photo, I would consider this most likely to be Hainan Blue. Perhaps a first-winter male still with some retained juvenile breast feathers? Do you have any more photos to confirm the pattern of blue on the breast/throat?

wleepoin

Same place, same time, same bird.

See if this can help a bit more to ID!

Cheers
PWMK

lmichael

Interesting bird! I agree that this is not an adult bird; in early September I think it is more likely to be in its first calendar year rather than second calendar year as the latter should have completed a wing/tail note by this date I think. However, I don't think it is a first winter male Hanian Blue Flycatcher. The latter has limited blue on the head and body feathers at this time (presumably these are moulted later in the winter). A second reason why not a Hainan Blue is the rather sharp transition between the blue throat and breast. This does not fit with a bird which is moulting into adult Hainan Blue plumage (where the blue extends onto the breast).

Agreed that it cannot be either Chinese Blue or klossi Blue-throated due to solidly blue throat: this leaves it as one of the three 'Blue-throated Blue' races. It doesn't look like bominate rubeculoides from India and I suspect that it is one of the South-east Asian taxa, either rogersi from Burma or, perhaps dialimaemus from Burma/Thailand.

Natural occurence from either NW Thailand or Burma seems unlikely so I suspect that this bird is not of truly wild origin; that is not to say that this individual was not hatched in the wild!

Mike Leven

ajohn

But I understand both dialilaema and rogersi should also have the orange wedge on the throat to at least some extent. If so, it can't be either of those. The blue on this bird seems to me to be even more extensive even than rubeculoides.

I accept the argument that the division between blue and orange is fairly well-defined on this bird, but I still think this could be a moulting Hainan Blue. Is the extent of blue really a problem? I have trapped a blue hatch-year male HBF in mid-September which had completed body moult (aged by retained primaries/secondaries and primary coverts and juvenile-type spots on inner tertials). I will check to see if I have photos of that bird.

brendank

How about a hybrid?  There several species in the cyornis genus with overlapping range. A hybrid presumably could show any range of intermediate characteristics between parent species.

Ken

One more record photo showing the back of the bird.Obviously immature.