BBS BBS Help Help Search Search Members Members Login Login Register Register English | 中文
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register. Jul 4th, 2024, 2:25pm


   HKBWS BBS 香 港 觀 鳥 會 新 聞 組
   Discussion Area 討論區
   Photo Gallery 相片分享 I
(Moderators: Forrest FONG, BBS Moderators, Kwok Jai, carmen, George_Ho)
   Common Koel 噪鵑 chicks
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1  Reply Reply Send Topic Send Topic Print Print
   Author  Topic: Common Koel 噪鵑 chicks  (Read 1141 times)
Koel_Ko
BBS Member
BBS God
*****



I love birds!!

   


Gender: male
Posts: 222
Common Koel 噪鵑 chicks
« on: May 2nd, 2003, 1:58pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

208 Common Koel 噪鵑
Homantin 何文田  
29/4/2003
Some pics of a foster parent and the Koel chicks reared.
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/a5e9dc4a/bc/__hr_koel2.jpg?bcaugs.A6.lj09 0Q

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/a5e9dc4a/bc/__hr_Koel.jpg?bcaugs.Awiw79MI .

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/a5e9dc4a/bc/__hr_koel3.jpg?bcaugs.AtmGdUL H4

 
« Last Edit: May 20th, 2004, 1:42pm by BBS Moderators » Logged
Samson So
BBS Member
BBS Senior Member
****



I mean what I say

   
Email

Gender: male
Posts: 52
Re: Koel chicks
« Reply #1 on: May 2nd, 2003, 2:12pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Hi all,  
 
This is an interesting and useful record!
 
I have also seen Koel with foster parents such as Black-necked Starling, Crested Myna and Blue Magpie.
 
Does anyone see some other foster parents for the Koel?
 
Samson
Logged

Doing what you like is freedom. Liking what you do is happiness.
Ideals are like the stars, we never reach them; but like mariners, we chart our course by them.
Forrest FONG
BBS Administrator
*****




I love Bird Watching!

   
Email

Gender: male
Posts: 1123
Re: Koel chicks
« Reply #2 on: May 2nd, 2003, 9:04pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Hi Koel_ko,
 
The photos you stored at  
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/a5e9dc4a/bc/__hr_Koel.jpg?bcaugs.Awiw79MI .
could not be accessed by all means.
 
Can you send your photos to me direct for proper displaying at the BBS, please.
 
Please also note the advice in my previous messages:
http://www.hkbws.org.hk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=BirdingTips;action=di splay;num=1049548002
 
Regards
 
Forrest
 
Logged

FF
Koel_Ko
BBS Member
BBS God
*****



I love birds!!

   


Gender: male
Posts: 222
Re: Koel chicks
« Reply #3 on: May 3rd, 2003, 8:01pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Dear Mr. Fong,
My apologies again for troubling you - could you please specify the direct method for sending the photos to you, ie. by email or via other means? I have tried the picturetrail account nad had no luck in posting my photos, so I had to revert to using the yahoo photos account, which, with the links I had specified, in fact showed the photos on my immediate posting, so that I failed to notice the failure.  
Sorry again for the treament of the photos  
Logged
Forrest FONG
BBS Administrator
*****




I love Bird Watching!

   
Email

Gender: male
Posts: 1123
Re: Koel chicks
« Reply #4 on: May 3rd, 2003, 11:29pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Hi Koel_ko,
 
You can send the photos to my email please.
You can find my email address by just clicking the "envelope" icon on the left.
 
Please keep using your picturetrail account instead of yahoo to store your photo.
 
Regards
 
Forrest
Logged

FF
Forrest FONG
BBS Administrator
*****




I love Bird Watching!

   
Email

Gender: male
Posts: 1123
The photos can be seen now!
« Reply #5 on: May 8th, 2003, 9:41pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Logged

FF
鳥友A(BWA)
Committee Member
BBS God
*****



I love Nature!

   


Gender: male
Posts: 308
Re: Koel 噪鵑 chicks
« Reply #6 on: May 8th, 2003, 10:36pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

哈!還以為喜鵲是鳥類中比較聰明的,原來牠們也會受騙。
 
 
Logged
xyz_ps
BBS Member
BBS Senior Member
****



I love bird watching!

6397271 6397271    
WWW

Gender: male
Posts: 100
Re: Koel 噪鵑 chicks
« Reply #7 on: May 10th, 2003, 7:00am »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

鳥,可能也會有慈悲之心呢?
當發現養了很久的鳥bb不是己所出,也不會不繼續養下去吧?
Logged
鳥友A(BWA)
Committee Member
BBS God
*****



I love Nature!

   


Gender: male
Posts: 308
Re: Koel 噪鵑 chicks
« Reply #8 on: May 10th, 2003, 4:54pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

哺育鶵鳥是大部份鳥類的本能,用擬人法來看可以說是愛心或母性。
 
親鳥辨認幼鳥的能力有限,只知努力喂哺,未能發現巢中幼鳥竟然並非自己所出, 而且是謀殺親生骨肉的的兇手。
 
如果噪鵑的寄主有人類的智慧和感情的話,當牠們發現這可怕的現實後會怎麼反應 呢?
 
噪鵑這類寄生性雀鳥利用了寄主的弱點損人利己,省去育鶵的工作,用人類的標準 來講是非常的缺德,但是這正是噪鵑的天性,就如寄生在人體的寄生蟲或SARS病毒 一樣,是自然現象,無所謂道德不道德。(當然,人與人之間相處就一定要講道德 。)
 
身為人類,我們都期望惡有惡報,這在自然界中也有發生:有些“比較聰明”的雀 鳥能夠把自己下的蛋和“冒牌貨”分辨出來。一旦發現巢中有異,牠們會棄巢從頭 再來,或者乾脆把假蛋一腳踢出巢外。
 
(有關杜鵑和寄主的鬥爭可參考The Life of Birds網站 http://www.pbs.org/lifeofbirds/home/index.html 中的"Parenthood"一頁)
 
 
 
« Last Edit: May 10th, 2003, 5:12pm by 鳥友A(BWA) » Logged
xyz_ps
BBS Member
BBS Senior Member
****



I love bird watching!

6397271 6397271    
WWW

Gender: male
Posts: 100
Re: Koel 噪鵑 chicks
« Reply #9 on: May 11th, 2003, 4:14pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

有野學~!!!
 
 
Logged
假鳥迷
Guest

Email

Re: Koel 噪鵑 chicks
« Reply #10 on: May 11th, 2003, 10:00pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify Remove Remove

這是巢寄生物與寄主間的競賽。
 
在鳥類,魚類和昆蟲中都有一些自己不築巢、不育幼,而是把牠們的卵產在其他種 類的巢中,如Koel Ko所將張貼的噪鵑,是巢寄生物 (brood parasitism)。
 
杜鵑科鳥類是廣泛被認知的巢寄生物,記得在「保護塱原濕地運動」中,壞蛋 1 號曾在塱原拍得一巢黑領椋鳥和雛鳥,圖的右下角「突」了一個黑色的頭出來,原 來是一隻噪鵑的雛鳥。
 
有年長一輩的觀鳥人說,夏天市區常聽見噪鵑的原因,可能是因為牠們找尋其他鳥尤其是椋鳥的巢,而椋鳥廣泛分佈於城市內。雖然這一點未被證實,不過從以上可略知一二。
 
巢寄生物與其寄主,可以進化競賽來理解,這是指其中一方受益(巢寄生者)而另 一方(寄主)受損。在鳥類中,巢寄生者具有多樣的適應,以便提高牠們利用寄主 的效率,這些適應包括模擬寄主的卵或雛鳥、殺死寄主的雛鳥和把寄主的卵從鳥巢 中排擠出去等。
 
鳥友 A 提供Life of Birds的說明,其中提及牛鳥(crowbird),這是一個很有趣的例子去解釋上述觀察牛鳥是分佈於北美洲的一種巢寄生鳥類,據記載曾在200多種不的寄主鳥類中產過卵,其中有100多種曾成功地養育。曾有學者(Robthstein)對棕頭牛鳥(Molothrus ater)作廣泛研究。小弟節錄其中的細節,與大家一起分享:
 
由於牛鳥的寄生,寄主至少要損失一枚卵,並將很多時間和能量用於養育牛鳥的一 隻雛鳥,而自己在遺傳上一無所獲。雖然可能寄主養育牛鳥同時也養育自己的雛鳥 ,但牛鳥的卵常常比寄主的卵更早地孵化出,在這種情況下,寄主為了餵養牛鳥而 會放棄牠們自己的卵。這就是競爭,會導致另一方失敗和有所損失。
 
有些寄主會完全接受巢寄物種的卵,而有些則完全拒絕。有解釋是這視乎鳥類有否 識別外來卵的能力,然而,拒絕行為顯然是一種適應。
 
寄主鳥類為甚麼會「接納」和「拒絕」,Robthstein曾提出過幾種假設:
 
假設(1) - 寄生損失:「拒絕」物種一定是那些在自然界遭到最嚴重的寄生物種,而「接納」物種則很少被寄生,如有的話,可能在進化過程中沒有遭到嚴重寄生
假設(2) -「接納」物種遭寄生歷史較短:「拒絕」行為來不及進化,這可能會由環境變化因素或物種入侵而造成
假設(3) - 相像的卵:「拒絕」物種的卵可能與巢寄生的卵不相像,容易被識破
假設(4) – 不同的鳥種:如果寄主有反寄生行為,例如體型較大而可以把巢寄生者的卵啄起或扔出巢外,那麼「接納」和「拒絕」應屬於不同的鳥種中。不過Robthsten指出 ,在雀形目的4個科中,每個科的鳥類都有「接納」和「拒絕」類別。
 
由上面看出,目前還沒有一個物種狀態指標能夠判斷物種是「接納」還是「拒絕」 的類型。
 
從遺傳學上解說,「接納」是因為寄主們缺乏識別外來卵的能力,會導致嚴重損失 ,而具有這種能力而「拒絕」的,會受益匪淺。
 
從「自然選擇」(Natural Selection,或簡單說「弱肉強食」)來看,有些物種可能要靠突變(mutation)或基 因重組而得以產「拒絕」行為,從而得以繼續得以保留,傳宗接代。
 
Robthsten推算,「拒絕」行為的基因要傳佈至整個種群(即是由「接納」變為「拒 絕」),
 
需要約20-100年時間,這亦解釋了上述為甚麼有些寄主會完全接受巢寄 物 種 的 卵 , 而有些則完全拒絕 。
 
這指出了物種的適應是決定於有沒有發生遺傳突變,「拒絕」行為是很好的適應, 讓自然選擇發揮作用。
 
 
參考資料:
Rothstein S. I. 1975a, Evolutionary rates and host defences against avian brood parasitism Amer. Natur. Vol 109: 161-176
Logged
Koel_Ko
BBS Member
BBS God
*****



I love birds!!

   


Gender: male
Posts: 222
Re: Koel 噪鵑 chicks
« Reply #11 on: May 17th, 2003, 4:06pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Actually, brood parasitism is quite an advanced method for ensuring the survival of a species' offsprings (that is, if successfully practiced). I would suggest that the acceptence of these brood parasites, at least for the Magpie's case, is because the parasitic behaviour of the Koels cause no significant effect on the population of the Magpies, so that the reproduction of the Magpies are not on the whole hindered. Would it be justified to say that if the parasitic behaviour could have so serious an effect on the population of the magpies, they could develop the ability to recognize the alien chicks? It might not be so, though, for the Kirtland's Warbler in N America, sadly, is on the brink of extinction, mainly due to habitat destruction (recalling the sedimentation of the Deep Bay?) and the situation is aggravated by cowbird parasitism. I should hope that they could develop the ability to recognize cowbird chicks; but that does not seem to be the case!
Logged
鳥友A(BWA)
Committee Member
BBS God
*****



I love Nature!

   


Gender: male
Posts: 308
Re: Koel 噪鵑 chicks
« Reply #12 on: May 17th, 2003, 6:37pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

一種鳥類能否發展出對抗巢寄生的本能,我相信主要是靠牠們的運氣,因為自衛行 為不會從寄主鳥類的主動思考得來,而是像其他本能一樣,從無數的基因突變、基 因重組或既有的本能中篩選出來。當然,如果寄生問題已有相當長的時間,則牠們 會有比較大的機會踫到能夠提供自衛本能的基因。
 
當巢寄生出現的時候,如果寄主不幸沒有有效的自衛本能,又未能及時遇上相應可 用的基因突變或重組,這個物種可能會因繁殖不足而絕滅。如果寄生問題嚴重,可 以讓有自衛本能的個體加快在種群中傳播,但是第一個這種個體能否出現就真的要 靠牠們的運氣了。
« Last Edit: May 17th, 2003, 10:07pm by 鳥友A(BWA) » Logged
Pages: 1  Reply Reply Send Topic Send Topic Print Print

« Previous topic | Next topic »

logo

香 港 觀 鳥 會
Hong Kong Bird Watching Society

Best viewed with IE 6.0 or Netsacpe 7.0:

Download Explorer   Download Netscape

HKBWS BBS 香 港 觀 鳥 會 新 聞 組 » Powered by YaBB!
YaBB 2000-2002,
Xnull. All Rights Reserved.