HKBWS BBS 香 港 觀 鳥 會 新 聞 組
        (http://www.hkbws.org.hk/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl)
      

        Discussion Area 討論區 >> Conservation 自然保育 >>  米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
        
(Message started by: me_domchan on Dec 14th, 2004, 1:34am)
Title: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by me_domchan on Dec 14th, 2004, 1:34am
話說今日小弟匿係米埔三層鳥屋等雀...
其間有兩團學生來參觀

Today, I was waiting inside the 3-story birdhide for some birds. During my stay, 2 groups of students visited the birdhide.  

第一團係中學生，有男有女，未見其人..先聞其聲...
基本上係嘈到拆天。入到鳥屋後..上左二/三樓。
WWF 導遊就開始叫人唔好嘈..再幾大聲咁講下出面有乜鳥...(D 鳥避晒係池的另一邊啦..連屋邊樹上面d 白頭鵯都走夾唔頭)
搞左一輪..就走左。除左HE HE HA HA....唔知有無留心過導遊講乜。

The first group was secondary school students made up of boys and girls. They spoke to each other loudly, I heard them when they were on the footpath. They entered the birdhide after a while and went up to 2nd /3rd floor. The WWF guide started to ask the students to keep quiet and introduced the habitat and birds quite loudly. (Of course, most birds were on the far side of the pond, even the Chinese Bulbul fed on trees nearby flew away)
5-10 minutes later, they left in a noisy way. The students chat between each other throughout the visit and I wondered how many of them DID listen to the WWF guide.

第二團係小學生，佢地入黎之前剛剛有一隻黑臉琵鷺係鳥屋前覓食，距離約15-20米。
我正在門邊的窗口拍攝，當一位WWF 女導遊推門入黎的時間，我輕輕聲"SHHH"佢地。
D 小朋友都一齊SHHH....開始靜靜咁入黎。但係個女導遊就好大聲..係好大聲咁同未入黎D 學生講："你地要靜D 呀！" ....我己經打個突...

The second group was primary students, boys and girls.  Right before they came in the hide, a BFS was feeding close to the birdhide. (15-20 meters) I was shooting next to the door, so I signaled the Female WWF guide and the leading students to keep quiet by "shhhhhh"ing them. The kids definitely knew what was going on and they came in quietly.  BUT, the female WWF guide turned around and SHOUTED to the following students "YOU HAVE TO KEEP QUIET!!!" I was shocked!!!

跟住我指俾D 小朋友睇有黑臉琵鷺，D 小朋友梗係好開心想睇一睇啦...
個女導遊係樓梯口再大聲咁叫" 同學好上二樓啦！"...(我開始滴汗)....

I then showed the kids there was a BFS out there, they were very excited and want to peep thru the windows.
BUT then, the WWF guide SHOUTED again "PLEASE MOVE UP TO 2ND FLOOR!!!".....(Ok...I am "amazed"....)


好啦..D 小朋友上晒去二/三樓啦..咁梗|少少嘈..但係都算細聲。至少隻黑臉琵鷺仲係度。
呢個時間.....女導遊又突然喝|"你地唔好再嘈啦！好收聲啦！"
唔講由自可....佢一出聲...隻黑臉琵鷺即刻被嚇走....XDDDDDDD
可惜...個女導遊唔覺得自己大聲..仲即刻好凶咁話"見唔見到隻黑臉琵鷺飛過，就係你地嘈走左佢。再嘈就唔準睇即刻走"
之後如是者又係好大聲咁介紹下D 雀......呢團就走左...
由始至終....最嘈都係個...女導遊...唔知佢以前係唔係...教書架呢.......XDDDD

After the kids moved up to 2nd/3rd floor, some noise were expected but the level was acceptable as the BFS was still feeding out there.
ALL in a SUDDEN, the guide SHOUTED again "Stop talking, KEEP QUIET!!". As soon as she shouted, the BFS fled in a hurry.  
Unfortuantely, the guide didn't feel any bad, she SHOUTED again in anger " Look at that BFS, it left because YOU STUDENTS are too noisy, if you don't stop talking, we will leave immediately"  
Then, the guide stated to introduce the habitat and birds LOUDLY..........
The point is........the tour guide was definitely the one who made most of the noise......while she didn't really realize...


其實...呢D 團對有心的人黎講梗係好好啦..
但係遇著D無心睇，掛住自己玩又嘈既中學生有無用呢？ |唔|浪費D QUOTA?
又或都有心睇..遇著個大聲惡導遊....咁又|唔|影響左大眾(尤其係小朋友)對保|的印像呢？

In fact, the Mai Po tours are very good for those who are interested. This provides a precious opportunity for general public to know what conservation is like.
However, if the participants don't really interested in conservation, e.g. secondary students, who treat the tour a way to stay away from classes on weekday, played among themselves and made nosies. Will it be a WASTE to the visit Quota?
In contrast, what if the participants are interested but they run in a tour guide who is bad tempered/impatient/noisy? Will this affect the particiapnts's impression (esp. children) to conservation efforts?!





 
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感
Post by isaac_chan on Dec 14th, 2004, 2:33am
我有點緊張, 我已請了三天假入米埔..... :P
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感
Post by pippenho on Dec 14th, 2004, 9:06am
我上次成千隻雀飛走咪又係WWF d小姐 :-X :-/,到現在都唔明點解穿高跟鞋要行木橋唔行出面石屎路,佢走後仲大大聲同其他人講:"呢!果個人亞"........ :P :-X :-/



on 12/14/04 at 02:33:06, isaac_chan wrote:
我有點緊張, 我已請了三天假入米埔..... :P


聽士多阿伯講星期三是沒有團的,不過可能有工程, :P
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感
Post by 深藍 Owen on Dec 14th, 2004, 10:25am
should following up in the following topics :
"Mai Po Management Comments 歡迎就米埔的管理發表意見"

http://www.hkbws.org.hk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Conservation;action=display;num=1102319055

and let them know you guys concern~~~!! Go Go Go!!
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感
Post by me_domchan on Dec 14th, 2004, 1:10pm

on 12/14/04 at 10:25:36, 深藍 Owen wrote:
should following up in the following topics :
"Mai Po Management Comments 歡迎就米埔的管理發表意見"

http://www.hkbws.org.hk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Conservation;action=display;num=1102319055

and let them know you guys concern~~~!! Go Go Go!!



You put my message in English, I will put the message there.   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by 深藍 Owen on Dec 14th, 2004, 1:36pm
reply in Chinese loh. tell them translation service not provide... they should hv chinese staff understand chinese lah.
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by eshek on Dec 15th, 2004, 7:32pm
Conservation is important in a nature reserve but education is also important although there maybe dilemma/conflict in between, it is important to make a balance.

Mai Po Nature Reserve is a place for both conservation and education. To balance these, only part of the area (AFCD path, tower hide, EC) is opened for most visits, some (floating boardwalk) for selected visits, and some (southern part) are purely for nature conservation.

Education is a life long  process. Successful environmental education is not only foster the knowledge but also enhance positive change of people's attitude and behaviour. Education should never involve selection of targets in terms of their background, level, even attitude. In addition, the reserve / nature is not only owned by the people who appreciate / care of it, but owed by all people. Please do take part in helping educate people and hopefully to have one day that energy will not spent in controlling the undisciplined crowd but in working with people to take part in conservation works instead. Of course, things could not be done within short period of time. But there is a group of people who work hard everyday to manage the reserve and educate our future generations to be a responsible citizen.  ;)
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by 鳥友Ａ(BWA) on Dec 15th, 2004, 9:21pm
聽到多米的報告，心中著實有點不快。 :-/

可以想像，要那群喋喋不休的中學生閉嘴實在不容易。如果他們無心參觀或聽講，導遊或者可以暫時停止活動，約法三章，讓學生學|尊重保護區的規矩，這是基本的公民教|。

對小學生來說，或許一些課堂管理技巧|有點幫助。

不知我們的南生圍資深義務導遊 Sze 有沒有一點心得可以分享呢? :)


It is sad to hear Dominic's noisy story. :-/

I can image the difficulty of controlling a group of chatty teenagers. Perhaps more discipline could have been exercised, e.g. by suspending the tour temporarily until the students understand how they should behave themselves. This is good civic education: everyone should learn to respect the rules in a nature reserve.

For the primary students, perhaps some training on classroom management techniques might help.

As a veteran volunteer guide at NSW, does Sze have any points to share with us? :)
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by little_dolphin on Dec 15th, 2004, 10:31pm

on 12/14/04 at 01:34:53, me_domchan wrote:
第一團係中學生，有男有女，未見其人..先聞其聲...
基本上係嘈到拆天。入到鳥屋後..上左二/三樓。
WWF 導遊就開始叫人唔好嘈..再幾大聲咁講下出面有乜鳥...(D 鳥避晒係池的另一邊啦..連屋邊樹上面d 白頭鵯都走夾唔頭)
搞左一輪..就走左。除左HE HE HA HA....唔知有無留心過導遊講


好遺憾，依家d中學生一得閒就淨係識去唱K，打機，上網ICQ，一大班人HEHEHAHA去行街，或者堐情A個個都唔肯去行公園，觀鳥，行山等欣賞大自然ge活動。就算去都係一大班人HEHEHAHA去o個種。（其實連大學生都係咁。）

似乎香港學生需要更多有關大自然ge教|，最好係出去行鵅A唔係淨係靠咪書o黎 學大自然ge野。（依家ge中學教|係咁） :-[
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by 深藍 Owen on Dec 15th, 2004, 10:44pm
我反而覺得o個位小學生的導遊要檢討檢討.. 其他既. 唔好講米埔, 週街 d 都係咁, 慣. 冇乜感覺了...
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by little_dolphin on Dec 15th, 2004, 10:46pm

on 12/15/04 at 21:21:57, 鳥友Ａ(BWA) wrote:
可以想像，要那群喋喋不休的中學生閉嘴實在不容易。如果他們無心參觀或聽講，導遊或者可以暫時停止活動，約法三章，讓學生學|尊重保護區的規矩，這是基本的公民教|。


其實平日上堂學生已是這樣的...　老師亦常用這方法令學生安靜，只是 没什麼效。（5分鐘後學生們依舊在喧嘩)

至於公民教|，可能還要很久才能令他們學懂這些了...　（從近幾年平安夜／大除夕文化中心外發生的事便可見。） :(
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by bjingbar on Dec 15th, 2004, 10:51pm
BWA mentions "For the primary students, perhaps some training on classroom management techniques might help."

From my observation a busload of students is often separated into small "manageable" groups, each of these small groups SHOULD have at least one school teacher, school teachers are better trained at controlling rowdy children than the young WWF guides.

eshek mentions "Please do take part in helping educate people and hopefully to have one day that energy will not spent in controlling the undisciplined crowd but in working with people to take part in conservation works instead"

In my opinion the HKBWS, its members and this BBS are doing their very best to promote conservation
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by little_dolphin on Dec 15th, 2004, 10:57pm

on 12/15/04 at 22:44:24, 深藍 Owen wrote:
我反而覺得o個位小學生的導遊要檢討檢討.. 其他既. 唔好講米埔, 週街 d 都係咁, 慣. 冇乜感覺了...


呢個呀... 見呢件事已經post o左上 《歡迎就米埔的管理發表意見》果度，希望WWF|睇同埋跟進...

似乎WWF需要請d更有水準ge導遊，或者俾多d培訓佢地...
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by 鳥友Ａ(BWA) on Dec 15th, 2004, 11:06pm

on 12/15/04 at 22:44:24, 深藍 Owen wrote:
我反而覺得o個位小學生的導遊要檢討檢討..



on 12/15/04 at 22:51:13, bjingbar wrote:

... school teachers are better trained at controlling rowdy children than the young WWF guides.



on 12/15/04 at 22:57:17, little_dolphin wrote:
…，或者俾多d培訓佢地...



英雄所見略同，其實我說的「課堂管理技巧」就是要給導遊的。

We share the same view - the “training on classroom management techniques”were intended for the tour guides.

;)
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by 深藍 Owen on Dec 15th, 2004, 11:44pm

on 12/15/04 at 22:57:17, little_dolphin wrote:
呢個呀... 見呢件事已經post o左上 《歡迎就米埔的管理發表意見》果度，希望WWF|睇同埋跟進...

似乎WWF需要請d更有水準ge導遊，或者俾多d培訓佢地...


D 導遊, 聽講係義工. 都係讀緊書的.
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by little_dolphin on Dec 16th, 2004, 12:13am

on 12/15/04 at 23:44:29, 深藍 Owen wrote:
D 導遊, 聽講係義工. 都係讀緊書的.


咁樣...  唯有叫WWF教識佢地，無論何時何地（尤其是係米埔）都唔好做D嘈住／嚇親野生動物ge事，以免佢地係班細路面前做壞榜樣，同埋點樣控制黎參觀ge細路仔／青少年。
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by Sze on Dec 16th, 2004, 2:35am

on 12/15/04 at 21:21:57, 鳥友Ａ(BWA) wrote:
不知我們的南生圍資深義務導遊 Sze 有沒有一點心得可以分享呢? :)
As a veteran volunteer guide at NSW, does Sze have any points to share with us? :)


BWA 多謝你的誇獎呀！資深實在稱不上，因為我也只是當了不足2年的義工，而且是很久才幫一次手，實在有很多前輩在我之上，心得應該比我多數十倍以上，只是見大家談論得如此熱烈，我也想分享一些我的帶團經歷！但因為不知道在米埔帶團要講解些什麼，所以未能「針對性」給予什麼意見！所以很可能對這個論題沒有什麼實際的幫助，只是一些分享而已！

其實帶團絕對並不千篇一律的！我們除了要對「官方指定講解內容」完全熟悉外，講解時也有考慮對象的年齡及教|背景等不同因素從而於「官方指定講解內容」中選擇講解內容的多少及深淺！絕對不是將你腦內的知識全部背誦出來便是好的講解！比方說如果對著一班小一至小三的學生時，我想大家也不|和牠們仔細地解說「禿鷹絕種之謎」這等比較複雜的生態問題吧！因為對於不知「食物鏈」為何物的小學生，你的講解對他們來說|好比「對牛彈琴」，如果講解不能引起聽眾的興趣，那麼你便連一丁點的環保訊息也未能灌輸入他們的腦內！這麼講解是白費的！

其實我除了是濕地公園的義工外，今年我也參加了嘉道理農場的環境導賞証書課程，所以現在也有在KFBG幫手帶一些參觀團！為這兩個機構帶團，除了講解的資料不同外，也因為對象的不同的，說話的方法也|有所不同！例如：在濕地公園，因為對象的是一般市民，他們參加我們的生態團很大部份都只是抱著在郊野旅行一天的心態，所以我們主要講解的都是介紹途中遇見的雀鳥、植物、基圍及泥灘上的動植物，讓市民們了解香港的濕地郊野原來是有這麼多不同的動植物，從而希望他們對濕地|多加愛惜。而在KFBG，因為對象多是中小學生，小部份機|是參加社區中心活動的老人家，對著不同的聽眾，著重講解的內容都|不同！例如：對著小學生時，我|用化名「ABC姐姐」帶團，從而增加他們對我的親切感！而且我|著重教導他們要愛護動物及大自然這些比較容易理解的概念。教他們不要隨意嚷著要飼養寵物，如果決定飼養一定不可遺棄牠們；看見地上的螞蟻不要因你覺得牠們醜便用腳踩死牠們和告訴他們野生動物要面對很多的生存威脅，所以有多加愛惜等等。面對中學生時，講解的資料|深奧一點，而且可以的話|提出一些關於環保的問題，嘗試與他們多點討論，令他們多想一點！但對著公公婆婆時，我|用中文名字介紹自己，而且盡量避免用英文詞彙，主要講解的是一些關於有機農業的資料，與他們生活有關的事情！另外，要額外主要他們的體力問題，若有需要的可能要多作小休的安排！

至於團隊紀律問題，通常我們|在行程開始前和參觀者「約法三章」，講清楚有什麼要注意的地方，有什麼事情可以做，有那些不可以做！因為總不可能所有參加者都知曉「規矩」！縱然事前已說明一切，但通常人都是善忘的，尤其是在一些「非學校」的學習地方！情緒總|異常高漲，興奮莫明，（其實我們讀書時也還不是一樣嗎？多一點包容吧！因為一班很乖很靜但沒有反應的對象也不見得是一件好事！）所以行程上總少不了多加提醒，例如：進入一些需要特別安靜的地方之前便要再三提醒了！此外，在行程中也要與老師多溝通及配合。有時老師可能用一些類似「軍訓式」的方法管理學生時，不要一下子便覺得老師太嚴厲而與他唱反調，因為老師始終對那班學生較熟悉，他用的方法未必沒有道理，所以視乎情況盡量協調配合！團隊人數如果在二十人或以下，紀律方面|較易控制的，管理手段可以輕鬆一點；但多於二十人以上，尤其是小學生，人數越多，紀律便|越難控制，有可能要以一些較嚴厲的方法管理！

至於帶團者的聲量問題，很多時都|因怕聲量小而令參加者對講解聽得不清楚，所以很多時都|習慣性地很大聲講話，就算進入一些較寧靜的環境時，仍|忘我地大聲說話，我很多時也|犯同樣的錯誤！解決方法只有自己多加注意，但這需要一段時間的自我訓練及警惕！

帶團是一項互動的活動，無論在聆聽同說話方面同樣需要技巧，需要因應情況作出不同的反應，這些是需要經驗累積才有進步！如果帶到一團反應良好的參加者時確實有很大的滿足感，但帶著一班「惡教」的參加者時心情難免沮喪，但怎樣不讓沮喪的心情浮於面上，甚至情緒變得一蹶不振，實在很靠個人的EQ，而EQ可以靠經驗累積而提升，但最重要的是多作自我檢討，發掘需要改善之處，不要以為作「官方指定講解內容」背熟後便已是「完美」！社|不停的改變，環境問題日新月異，帶團的朋友應多看些不同的資料，多充實自己的知識！說話時不要「只顧著自己不停的將稿子一字不|的背誦出來」，還要顧及聽眾的反應，要令到參加者明白你講解的內容含意，這才算一個「有效」的帶團！有時可能整個行程只講到數個Point，但只要參加者是有所得著的，這也已算「成功」，不要給自己太大的壓力，每個參加者對知識吸收的能力也不同，要在短短的2至3小時內改變一班參加者的思想，實在是不大可能的事！我們可以做到只是以「日積月累」的方法一點一滴的「滲透」大眾的想法，這是一項長久的工作！

定期培訓從而提升帶團者的帶團技巧是有確切的需要！但個人認為大部份機構都因人手不足的問題，無奈地只能提供一些不定期的培訓項目，而未能提供「完善的」持續培訓！而且有時有些義工報名時也只抱著「玩玩下」的心態，事前並沒有考慮過原來要犧牲一定的私人時間去應付帶團的工作，於是很久才「露面帶一團半團」，這樣生疏的帶團當然是覺得困難重重，之後便發覺帶團工作沒有如他們預料的那麼有趣，甚至是辛苦及厭惡時便|「消失」了！我覺得不論培訓工作或是被培訓者都是需要長時間的投資，而且一定要雙方面努力才能達到大家預期的效果，希望各位有心人繼續努力！一起共勉之！（註：以上內容只是個人言論，並不代表任何機構立場！）
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by pippenho on Dec 16th, 2004, 8:46am

on 12/16/04 at 02:35:30, Sze wrote:
BWA 多謝你的誇獎呀！資深實在稱不上，因為我也只是當了不足2年的義工，而且是很久才幫一次手，實在有很多前輩在我之上，心得應該比我多數十倍以上，只是見大家談論得如此熱烈，我也想分享一些我的帶團經歷！但因為不知道在米埔帶團要講解些什麼，所以未能「針對性」給予什麼意見！所以很可能對這個論題沒有什麼實際的幫助，只是一些分享而已！

我覺得不論培訓工作或是被培訓者都是需要長時間的投資，而且一定要雙方面努力才能達到大家預期的效果，希望各位有心人繼續努力！一起共勉之！（註：以上內容只是個人言論，並不代表任何機構立場！）


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_11.gif
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by Webcreeper on Dec 16th, 2004, 12:56pm
Summary of Sze’s sharing regarding her experience as a volunteer tour guide with Wetland Park and KFBG:

1. Vary the approach and tailor the contents to suit different audiences, so that they can understand the message.

2. State the rules at the beginning. Give reminders during the trip where necessary.

3. Keep the group below 20 for effective management.

4. Don’t expect them to take in everything you say within the 2 to 3 hours

5. Remind yourself frequently to control your voice

6. Keep improving your skills and knowledge

7. Practice makes perfect

8. Be prepared for a long-term committment
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by Sze on Dec 16th, 2004, 6:59pm

on 12/16/04 at 12:56:56, Webcreeper wrote:
Summary of Sze’s sharing regarding her experience as a volunteer tour guide with Wetland Park and KFBG:


Webcreeper! Thank you so much for your translation and summary! :D
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by Sze on Dec 16th, 2004, 7:36pm

on 12/16/04 at 08:46:56, pippenho wrote:
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_11.gif


Pippen! Thanks for your support la!   ;)
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by Etta on Dec 16th, 2004, 7:53pm
Thanks for the great sharing form Sze and the  translation effort from Webcreeper.

Sze, 謝謝你的經驗分享呀！ :D

Etta :)
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by Sze on Dec 16th, 2004, 8:28pm

on 12/16/04 at 19:53:02, Etta wrote:
Sze, 謝謝你的經驗分享呀！ :D

Etta :)


You are welcom la!　 :)
只要大家唔嫌我太長氣就好了！ :P
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by Etta on Dec 16th, 2004, 9:24pm
加油啊！身教、言教、無言教... 知行合一！

Etta  :)
Title: Re: 米埔參觀團有感 Noisy Mai Po Tours
Post by me_domchan on Dec 18th, 2004, 2:04am
I am delighted to see so many responds! We all cared about conservation and education!!

I believe these are the extreme but not rare cases in Mai Po Tour

To balance these extreme cases, let me share my experiences with more-disciplined Mai Po tours on Thursday (12/17)

The first tour of secondary students were very very quiet, I was caught in surprise when the WWF tour guide opened the door!
(Ok..I was concentrated on taking photos......)

The students moved up to 2nd/3rd floor. The tour guide, instead of making introduction loudly once, made introduction  softly for students on each floor. Of course, the students were chit-chatting and very excited (a BFS was out there), some slight noise are expected. They moved away quietly after 15mins......the student even closed the door afterward!    :o :o

The 2nd tour was Primary students, they were a bit noisy. But overall was much better then the cases mentioned before.
Only one thing drew my attention, when the tour guide came in and saw me, he told the students " We have a birder here, so please be quiet. If you make noise and scare away the birds, he will scold you." I was thinking......"Do I look so bad-tempered?!"   ::) ::) ::)

I believe Mai Po Tours are very important to overall conservation efforts in HK and may be financially important to WWF for the management of Mai Po. However, "Quality Assurance" is vital to the success of these tours.







HKBWS BBS 香 港 觀 鳥 會 新 聞 組 » Powered by YaBB!
YaBB 2000-2002, Xnull. All Rights Reserved.