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        Discussion Area °Q½×°Ï >> Conservation ¦ÛµM«O¨| >>  Do You Know Why???¡@¬°¬Æ»ò???
        
(Message started by: KK Hui on Apr 15^th, 2005, 12:28pm)

Title: Do You Know Why???¡@¬°¬Æ»ò???
Post by KK Hui on Apr 15^th, 2005, 12:28pm

Shorebirds used to follow the incoming tide as it rises. They get quite close to the boardwalk hides until the point where they can't bear it and fleet towards the inner ponds for roosting. This has been the pattern for years as I recall.

Sadly this pattern has now changed and this year being the worest in memory! All that left behind are Avocets floating a far distance away from the hides. Shorebirds just leave for inner ponds well before the tide level even gets to 2m which is a long way away from the hides due to the rise of the mudflat itself.

Anyone would like to postulate what's going on?

All I can think of are the increasing human disturbance at the mudflat as of late and the increasing activities in the hides where more and more group visitings are now common sight hence lots of unwanted noise too ...

KK Hui ARPS
www.geocities.com/kkhui_001

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www.geocities.com/kkhui_001

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Title: Re: Do You Know Why???
Post by ²`ÂÅ Owen on Apr 15^th, 2005, 1:09pm

those group visting always reach hide right on time while the tide rise to the front of hide.

walkin, open door, windows, GOSSIPS.. "wow wow.. never seen before.... come over...mama I want to watch... !! etc" plus what I mentioned before. put their super camera out of the windows to make it "closer" to the birds and the worst is someone think u guys sitting inside is hot and stupid why don't just walk outside have a 180 degree fullview..

plus... seems my 20D shutter noise is louder than my previous 10D. brought a noise reducer already should try it on my next visit... ;D

Title: Re: Do You Know Why???
Post by pippenho on Apr 15^th, 2005, 2:39pm

on 04/15/05 at 13:09:47, ²`ÂÅ Owen wrote:

plus... seems my 20D shutter noise is louder than my previous 10D. brought a noise reducer already should try it on my next visit... ;D

I apologize for my noisy shutter too! :-[
§Ú³£¤ñ¤H¥Õ²´¹L´X¦¸,«Y«×Á¿ÁnSorry :-[Ãä«×¦³noise reducer¶R§r?Owen :-/

Title: Re: Do You Know Why???¡@¬°¬Æ»ò???
Post by Andrew on Apr 15^th, 2005, 5:26pm

I have seen the mudskipper collectors each time I have visited recently. I'm not sure how much disturbance they create as they have been quite a way from the feeding line when I have spotted them and various egrets seem to ignore them. That said they should not be there and it is a worry that they may spook the birds.

It is also true that the hides have become very noisy but there is a trade off between encouraging new people to see the birds and having optimum hide etiquette / behaviour. The responsibility should be with the guides to explain the sensitivities before the groups get out on to the boardwalk.

I am the first to get grumpy when disturbed and sadly it is not just photographers poking lenses through the hide windows - plenty of scopes get rested on the window ledges and protrude out. Camera lenses after often camouflaged. The shutter noise of a 20D is bad but my experience is that most people start taking photographs when the birds are quite a way out and frankly I think they get habituated to the clicking as they get closer to the hide - its just one more bit of ambient noise. What undoubtedly spooks the birds is sudden movement and people coming in and out of the hides (often noisily) at the very time the mudflats are almost covered.

These are issues that affect just about every reserve I have visited and I don't suppose things will change but maybe each group member should be briefed before they venture out and get a pamphlet explaining the sensitivity of the area and the need to allow the birds to feed in peace.

Andrew

Title: Re: Do You Know Why???
Post by ²`ÂÅ Owen on Apr 15^th, 2005, 5:35pm

on 04/15/05 at 14:39:53, pippenho wrote:

I apologize for my noisy shutter too! :-[
§Ú³£¤ñ¤H¥Õ²´¹L´X¦¸,«Y«×Á¿ÁnSorry :-[Ãä«×¦³noise reducer¶R§r?Owen :-/

group order from a photo group long ago. it's a water proof and warmer actaully but reduce the noise also.

u may try to find some similar products and order here, they accept overseas order :
http://www.kphoto.com.tw/front/bin/home.phtml
http://www.kphoto.com.tw/front/bin/ptlist.phtml?Category=59633

Title: Re: Do You Know Why???¡@¬°¬Æ»ò???
Post by me_domchan on Apr 15^th, 2005, 11:21pm

on 04/15/05 at 17:26:36, Andrew wrote:

What undoubtedly spooks the birds is sudden movement and people coming in and out of the hides (often noisily) at the very time the mudflats are almost covered.

I have no idea why the tours very often arrived right at the time the mudflats are covered! I run into this situation several times last month.

I believe better arrangement can be made to avoid disturbing the birds and the bird watchers who wait in the bird hide for hours.

Title: Re: Do You Know Why???¡@¬°¬Æ»ò???
Post by WH Or on Apr 16^th, 2005, 12:03pm

In order not to disturb the wild birds, I think it is a good practise not to let the telephoto lens protrude from the hide.

Photo taken on 3rd Apr 05

http://www.hkbws.org.hk/fileServer/PhotoG/betty/telelens-in-birdhide.jpg

Title: Re: Do You Know Why???¡@¬°¬Æ»ò???
Post by ³¾¤Í¢Ï(BWA) on Apr 17^th, 2005, 1:04am

It is these unscrupulous behaviour that we should watch out for. They would do anything to get their "great shots", regardless what the Code says.

They just don't care about the code. Birds are just another kind of object that they can shoot whichever they please. Never mind the damage - having bought such expensive equipment and taking all the trouble to make it to the boardwalk, how would they return empty-handed?

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Title: Re: Do You Know Why???¡@¬°¬Æ»ò???
Post by Andrew_H on Apr 17^th, 2005, 7:52am

I presume this post is intended as a joke.  If so it is in extremely poor taste. I suggest the moderator removes it as it is bordering on being defamatory.

Title: Re: Do You Know Why???¡@¬°¬Æ»ò???
Post by KK Hui on Apr 17^th, 2005, 8:48am

I'm with Andrew. What ³¾¤Í¢Ï(BWA) said is not at all appropriate here and with poor taste too ... I do NOT believe a moment what has been inferred there. Remember not all photographers and birders are the same.

Please read my original post and let's keep it on topic instead. Much Thanks!

KK Hui ARPS
www.geocities.com/kkhui_001

Title: Re: Do You Know Why???¡@¬°¬Æ»ò???
Post by ³¾¤Í¢Ï(BWA) on Apr 17^th, 2005, 2:30pm

What I want to say is that taking bird photos requires a lot of self-discipline, as there is always an irresistible temptation to cross the line while trying to perfect one's images.

I must emphasize that the great majority of photographers are considerate people who have taken pains to avoid disturbing the birds. I respect their effort, patience and restraint, which have brought us the stunning pictures that we all value and enjoy. Their works have also helped to educate the public about the enjoyment of nature, as well as the need for conservation.

My comments in fact refer to those very few who obviously did not know or follow the Code, as apparent from Mr Or's photo and various reports from other birdwatchers and photographers. I feel obliged to bring out the problem for discussion. No offence has been intended and I apologize for any that has been taken.

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Title: Re: Do You Know Why???¡@¬°¬Æ»ò???
Post by Captain on Apr 18^th, 2005, 2:06pm

I would like to address this "problem" from another angle. Pls don't mind.

To be honest, it is a photography problem, rather than a conservation issue.

Regardless shorebirds are close or far away from the boardwalk, the key pt here is whether they have enough time or food to feed prior to rising tide.

So, if they are plenty of food on the mudflat, it means that they have no need to forage at the exposed mudflat at the last minute, i.e. they have no need to feed around the bird hides.

KK's observations may indicate that there are more food available on the mudflat. So, they can fly back to Geiwais before tide is rising to the bird hides.

Of pointing tele-lens beyond the windows of bird hide, I personally do not think it will create a serious threat to the feeding shorebirds as lens are dead things that would kill a bird.

However, it create a disturbance to other birdwatchers, then it should be stopped.

Title: Re: Do You Know Why???¡@¬°¬Æ»ò???
Post by Captain on Apr 18^th, 2005, 2:08pm

Changes

Of pointing tele-lens beyond the windows of bird hide, I personally do not think it will create a serious threat to the feeding shorebirds as lens are dead things that would NOT kill a bird.

However, IF it createS disturbance to other birdwatchers, then it should be stopped.

Title: Re: Do You Know Why???¡@¬°¬Æ»ò???
Post by KK Hui on Apr 18^th, 2005, 3:14pm

on 04/18/05 at 14:06:04, Captain wrote:

... So, if they are plenty of food on the mudflat, it means that they have no need to forage at the exposed mudflat at the last minute, i.e. they have no need to feed around the bird hides. KK's observations may indicate that there are more food available on the mudflat. So, they can fly back to Geiwais before tide is rising to the bird hides ...

Thanks for the theory, Captain!

There is probably some truth in this assumption. That I take to mean food in the mudflat this year is abundant or there are less birds to fight for food compares with previous years. If that's the case, is it an indication there is improvement in environmental pollution over the mudflat lately then?

On the other hand could it be 'more food on the mudflat means more pollution'?

KK Hui ARPS
www.geocities.com/kkhui_001

Title: Re: Do You Know Why???¡@¬°¬Æ»ò???
Post by Captain on Apr 18^th, 2005, 3:44pm

I am a fans of "organic enrichment theory" ---- The more the organic wastes in a system (before the collapsing pt), the more the food available to a particular wildlife group.

A pig shit stream near San Tin which attracts a lot of birds could illustrate the theory.

In Deep Bay, the particular wildlife group is waterbird. BUT the suffering group could be freshwater fish or insects.

Inorganic waste is never a nice gift to any ecosystems. So, we must cut down the discharge as much as we can.

I have no idea about the organic and inorganic loading in DB, but it should be available at EPD websites.

Title: Re: Do You Know Why???¡@¬°¬Æ»ò???
Post by Captain on Apr 18^th, 2005, 3:49pm

Should be [A PIG SHIT STREAM AT SAN TIN.....]

Title: Re: Do You Know Why???¡@¬°¬Æ»ò???
Post by Captain on Apr 18^th, 2005, 3:49pm

Should be [A PIG S H I T STREAM AT SAN TIN.....]

Title: Re: Do You Know Why???¡@¬°¬Æ»ò???
Post by Samson So on Apr 18^th, 2005, 5:06pm

Dear all,

Some personal views to share with you.

Rising mudflat may be another reason for the recent situation. You can tell by the foraging Yellow Wagtail in front of the hides that the mudflat is gradually turning into drier habitat (look at the algae too). If you visit the floating hide when the tide is really high, say, close enough to reach the hides, the waders will still be very close.

We now need a very high tide to push the water and the birds in (e.g. above 2.2m~2.3m). Under this circumstance, the water moves in quite quickly, the mudflat will therefore be submerged very quickly. There is not much time left for the birds to 'stay really close', and they will search for high tide roosting site such as pond 11 and 16/17. Lowering the water level in these ponds, and creating islands inside the ponds etc., are habitat management works which human beings can do to achieve for a better habitat for waders. On the other hand, sedimentation is a natural process and there is very little human being can do about it.

The main purpose to establish a nature reserve is to conserve its ecological values and the wildlife. In the case of Mai Po, protecting the migratory waterbirds and their habitats are the main point.

In a longer term, education is the best investment. Sharing your joy of seeing birds is what a bird-lover can do. The 'boring Little Egret' wading in front of the mudflat may seem boring for many of you, but it may change the whole concept of conservation for a layman. It is not surprising that a layman doesn't know that how easy that birds will be disturbed. We can let them know in a friendly way and this may have a life-time benefit for all.

For the bird lovers, I suggest you not to be too worry. You can still see (you may need a telescope) the birds feeding happily on the mudflat. Survey results also suggest that the number of birds seemed to bounce back.

For photographers (myself included), let's wait for the real high tides, and try to visit the ponds during high tide periods.

Samson

Title: Re: Do You Know Why???¡@¬°¬Æ»ò???
Post by KK Hui on Apr 19^th, 2005, 9:34am

Thanks for sharing your insight, Samson!

As I said in my original message, my observation is that high tide these days doesn't guarantee the birds will come closer to the boardwalk hides. They fleet to the inner ponds well before the tide reaches 2.3m level ... :'(

This is definitely a change in pattern compared with previous years!!!

KK Hui ARPS
www.geocities.com/kkhui_001