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        Discussion Area °Q½×°Ï >> Photo Gallery ¬Û¤ù¤À¨É I >>  Zitting Cisticola ´Ä®°§ÀÅa
        
(Message started by: xyz_ps on Dec 27th, 2003, 5:42pm)
Title: Zitting Cisticola ´Ä®°§ÀÅa
Post by xyz_ps on Dec 27th, 2003, 5:42pm
343 Zitting Cisticola ´Ä®°§ÀÅa
Long Valley Üñ­ì
12/25/2003
Fuji S2Pro
Leica Telyt-S 800/6.3
http://www.hklfc.com/non-cgi/attach/2003/12/27/42665-DSCF6079FantailWarbler100-embed.jpg
http://www.hkbws.org.hk/fileServer/PhotoG/xyz_ps/xyz_ps_05.jpg
Title: Re: Fantail Warbler
Post by KK Hui on Dec 27th, 2003, 5:55pm

on 12/27/03 at 17:42:06, xyz_ps wrote:
... Fuji S2Pro, Leica Telyt-S 800/6.3 ...


Interesting that you are onto an old vintage Leica. How do you like it? Do you see any advantage of not going AF-S in your case? ::)

KK Hui ARPS
www.geocities.com/kkhui_001
Title: Re: Fantail Warbler
Post by xyz_ps on Dec 28th, 2003, 4:50am

on 12/27/03 at 17:55:16, KK Hui wrote:
Interesting that you are onto an old vintage Leica. How do you like it? Do you see any advantage of not going AF-S in your case? ::)

KK Hui ARPS
www.geocities.com/kkhui_001


Advantages:
1. You can get the old Leica's quality.  To name a few, I can get the "3D feel" and color saturation that my Nikon 300/2.8 can't give me.

2. You do have a stronger FEEL of "Taking Photographs" instead of "Shooting birds" because you spend more time on technical issues.  May be it will be better if I get used to the way to control this lens. However.....

3. I just borrowed my friend's lens to have test shots. So, I don't need to pay the high cost of AF-S ;D

However, one may never be able to shoot moving objects/panning with this huge lens.

You used Nikon's AFS before.  What's your comment on it when compared with Canon's USM?  ::)
Title: Re: Fantail Warbler
Post by xyz_ps on Dec 28th, 2003, 5:17am
http://www.hklfc.com/non-cgi/attach/2003/12/28/42712-DSCF6078-embed.jpg
http://www.hkbws.org.hk/fileServer/PhotoG/xyz_ps/xyz_ps_06.jpg
Title: Re: Fantail Warbler
Post by xyz_ps on Dec 28th, 2003, 5:17am
http://www.hklfc.com/non-cgi/attach/2003/12/28/42711-DSCF6114-embed.jpg
http://www.hkbws.org.hk/fileServer/PhotoG/xyz_ps/xyz_ps_07.jpg
Title: Re: Fantail Warbler
Post by xyz_ps on Dec 28th, 2003, 5:18am
http://www.hklfc.com/non-cgi/attach/2003/12/28/42710-DSCF6111-embed.jpg

http://www.hkbws.org.hk/fileServer/PhotoG/xyz_ps/xyz_ps_08.jpg
Title: Re: Fantail Warbler
Post by KK Hui on Dec 28th, 2003, 10:56am

on 12/28/03 at 04:50:27, xyz_ps wrote:
... You used Nikon's AFS before.  What's your comment on it when compared with Canon's USM?  ::)


To be honest I'm also a big fan of Leica optics. Unless you shoot stationary birds, manual focusing is a real challenge. Nothing beats the AF-S and/or USM AF in my opinion. Both systems, EOS and/or Nikon AF, delivery the results especially for action shots such as bird inflight ...

Enjoy your Leica!
Title: Re: Fantail Warbler
Post by xyz_ps on Dec 28th, 2003, 2:04pm

on 12/28/03 at 10:56:49, KK Hui wrote:
To be honest I'm also a big fan of Leica optics. Unless you shoot stationary birds, manual focusing is a real challenge. Nothing beats the AF-S and/or USM AF in my opinion. Both systems, EOS and/or Nikon AF, delivery the results especially for action shots such as bird inflight ...

Enjoy your Leica!


So, according to your experience, which one (AFS/USM) is a better focusing system?  I know the optical quality of Nikon may be a bit better than or par with Canon at 600mm.  However, it seems that most of your recent photos, before you used 10D, inclined to Canon than Nikon.  Action shots is more demanding on the focusing system.  Therefore, I really need your user comment on both of them.

You may PM me if you don't wish to publicly talk about their performance.  As you know, one may only be able to afford only one system, so which one to enter is a "big investment decision".  Thanks!  ;)
Title: Re: Fantail Warbler
Post by 648 on Dec 28th, 2003, 3:13pm
Peter¡G

§Ú¦³¤@¦ìªB¤Í¥¿¦b¨Ï¥ÎLEICA 800mm/f5.6,¤]¦b©çÄá­¸³¾(Å髬¸û¤jªº),¦P®É¤]¦b´M¨D¾A¦Xªºdslr,¥i¦³¥ô¦ó´£Ä³?

­¸
Title: Re: Fantail Warbler
Post by KK Hui on Dec 28th, 2003, 3:39pm
Peter,
As far as super telephotos are concerned, optic-wise Canon EF is on par with Nikon AF-S. If one starts from fresh, I'd say 'go for Canon EOS'. The IS feature in EOS alone would be an important consideration for focal length greater than 600mm.

But then again Nikon will soon be 'converting' all its super telephotos to VR anyway; just a matter of time. For AF bodies, they are very close indeed with the D2H auto focusing having a slight lead at present. But the table will once be turned come next spring when Canon anounces a new 1D replacement! ;D

You can't go wrong with either systems ...


Fei,
Your friend could do with a Leica->EOS mount adapter for using his Leica-R lens on EOS DSLR. Step-down metering is called for however and will work in M or Av mode.

Title: Re: Fantail Warbler
Post by felixcat on Dec 30th, 2003, 12:47am
Peter,

Next time you have to let me enjoy the power of LEICA 800mm/f5.6 and I know you have already tried very hard last time to share your enjoyment of being a LEICA fan.  Thanks anyway.

KK,

Thank you very much for sharing your experience of bird photography with such amatuers as me and telling nikonians like me as well that we still have chances of getting good bird photos with our existing Nikon AF system.

But one point I cannot get is why the IS (or VR) is important for big lens which are usually used with tripods.  Since there is still no VR big lens in Nikon, would you mind sharing your experience of IS in that case with us?

Felix
Title: Re: Fantail Warbler
Post by xyz_ps on Dec 30th, 2003, 8:52am

on 12/30/03 at 00:47:41, felixcat wrote:
Peter,

Next time you have to let me enjoy the power of LEICA 800mm/f5.6 and I know you have already tried very hard last time to share your enjoyment of being a LEICA fan.  Thanks anyway.

Felix


Well, I also haven't tried 800/5.6 and really want to shoot with it as well. ;D
The lens I shot with was 800/6.3 but it doesn't belong to me.  I also want to keep it for myself but definitely it's TOO EXPENSIVE!!!  Another shortfall is that the minimum focus distance is too long so I missed some good opportunities when I have close encounter with birds.  The lens itself is also too bulky and too long so not mobile enough. :-[
Title: Re: Fantail Warbler
Post by KK Hui on Dec 30th, 2003, 11:43am

on 12/30/03 at 00:47:41, felixcat wrote:
... But one point I cannot get is why the IS (or VR) is important for big lens which are usually used with tripods.  Since there is still no VR big lens in Nikon, would you mind sharing your experience of IS in that case with us? ...


At 600 mm and above even the slightest movement such as the releasing of shutter is hugely magnified producing less than sharp images. MLU helps to some extend but the IS feature is a BIG plus if you do use extender converter(s) with your super telephotos often.

KK Hui ARPS
www.geocities.com/kkhui_001
Title: Re: Fantail Warbler
Post by Daniel CK Chan on Dec 30th, 2003, 2:20pm

on 12/30/03 at 11:43:32, KK Hui wrote:
At 600 mm and above even the slightest movement such as the releasing of shutter is hugely magnified producing less than sharp images. MLU helps to some extend but the IS feature is a BIG plus if you do use extender converter(s) with your super telephotos often.

KK Hui ARPS
www.geocities.com/kkhui_001

I recommend to take KK¡¦s advice as he possesses and has sophisticated experiences in Canon IS, Non-IS and Nikon non-VR versions of super-tele lenses.

So you worth to wait and own the VR version big lens in my opinion. As a former Nikon user, I also suggest to wait for the sufficient user field tests before this important decision.

My IS big lens has very good performance for still shot with ¡§IS¡¨ ON even having tripod attached. It even works great especially with tele-converter(s) attached. The small motion on super-tele lens such as shaking hand(s) or blowing wind will make you get not-perfectly-sharp image. Now I always turn it on for motion and still shot for my practice.

Cheers
Title: Re: Fantail Warbler
Post by Hendrix on Dec 30th, 2003, 4:51pm
Some news said Nikon will made some VR tele-converter

like 1.4X VR  or just 1X VR  :o
Title: Re: Fantail Warbler
Post by felixcat on Dec 30th, 2003, 6:54pm
Thanks KK and Daniel.

The reason I asked such question is prehape due to the limitation of Nikon VR system as it is told that the VR should be switched off when the VR lens is mounted with a tripod.  Thanks for your sharing.
Title: Re: Fantail Warbler
Post by Hendrix on Dec 31st, 2003, 12:50am
¦³·N«ä, ¤@­Ó¥ÑNÂàCªºDX­è¸Õ¥Î¤F200-400VR, ¥Lªº¤@¨Ç¬Ýªk:

I got to handle a 200-400/VR today at an impromptu meeting in NYC -- attached to a D2H,
of course. I will say this: it's one SWEET lens! I wasn't allowed to slip my own CF card
into the camera, unfortunately (though she considered it for a minute). The lens has some
awesome specs:

1) It's a "new" generation of VR that will also be incorporated into their long primes of
300/2.8 and greater (expect Feb/PMA announcement) that CAN be used on a tripod -- just
like Canon's latest generation IS.
¤º¸Ëªº·s¤@¥NVR, ±N¦b§Y±N¤_PMAµo¥¬ªº·sªø©wµJ(300/2.8¥H¤W)¤¤ªö¥Î, ·sVR©M®a¯àªº·s¤@¥NIS¤@¼Ë
¥i¥H¦b¸}¬[¤W¨Ï¥Î.

2) It has a minimum focus distance of just six (6) feet (1.5 feet shorter than the
current 300/2.8 AFS, 4 feet shorter than 400/2.8 AFS)! At all lengths (a 400/4 lens that
focuses down to SIX FEET!)
³Ìªñ¦XµJ¶ZÖùF¨ì1.8M, ¤ñ·sAFS 300/2.8 IIªñ1.5¤Ø, ¤ñAFS 400/2.8 IIªñ4¤Ø!


3) She claims that it was designed, and was subsequently tested, to be as sharp as
Nikon's 400/2.8 AF-S II lens at 400mm wide open! The MTF curve is "alledged" to be the
highest for any 35mm AF zoom ever made, and very flat from f/4 - f/11.

nikon¥N²zªí¥Ü¦¹Ãè³]­p¥Ø¼Ð¬O¦b¥þ¶}ª¬ºA©MAFS 400/2.8II¹F¨ì¦P¼Ë¸Ñ¹³¤O, ´ú¸Õµ²ªG¤]µý©ú
¦p¦¹. ¸ÓÃ誺MTFªí²{±N¬O¥Ø«e¬°¤î35mm¨t²Î©Ò¦³ÅܵJÃèÀY¤¤³Ì°ªªº. ¦±½u±qF4¨ìF11«D±`¥­½w.

4) It is weather sealed (I saw the O-Ring) throughout and the zoom does not bring in air
from outside the lens, so NO DUST accumulation after prolonged use.
ÃèÀY¬O±K«Êªº, ÅܵJ®É¤£·|±q¥~³¡§l¤JªÅÉa, ©Ò¥Hªø®É¶¡¨Ï¥Î¦Z¤º³¡¤£·|¦³¹Ð¤g¿n»E.

5) It's BIG, but it at least FELT surprisingly light, believe it or not, and could easily
be handheld for reasonable periods of time. Using it with a nice, light CF monopod would
make this lens KILLER!
«Ü¤j¦ý«Ü»´. ¥i¥H«Ü®e©ö¤â«ù¬Û·íªø®É¶¡, ©M¤@¥u»´«KºÒÅÖºû¿W¸}¬[³s¥Î¥i¦¨¬°µL¼Ä²Õ¦X.

6) She made a rather bizzarre claim that, of course, could be just marketing speak. She
said that the 200-400, when used with the TC-20e II (a 2.0x teleconverter, for the
uninitiated), has a HIGHER MTF rating wide-open (f/8) than does the 80-400/VR wide open
(f/5.6) at 400mm (800mm for the 200-400). I had her say it twice, just to make sure. If
so, WAY cool! She also said it would AF and VR on the D2-series. 800/8 usable on a
MONOPOD anyone?!

¥N²zÁÙµoªí¤F­Ó©_©Ç¨¥½×, ¤]¥i¯à¬O°µ¼s§i, ¦o»¡200-400©MTC20EII³s¥Î, ¦bF8®É800mmºÝ¤ñ80-400VR
¦bF5.6®Éªº400mmºÝ¦¨¹³MTF­n°ª. ¦o­«Î`¤F¨â¹M. ¦pªG¬O¯uªº´N¤Ó´Î¤F. ¦oÁÙ»¡¥[¤WTC20E¦Z¦b
D2¨t¦C¤W¤´µM¥¿±`AF/VR.

6) This may be the very thing that tips the scale back in Nikon's favor for me, bringing
me back to my beloved Yellow & Black
³o¥uÃèÀY¥i¯à¨Ï§Ú­«ªð§ÚÄÁ·Rªº¶ÀÉO¶Â

...
However, AF speed was as fast as anything I've ever used. Going from MFD of about 6 feet
(the rose at my table) to 30+ feet across the restaurant just happened.

AF³t«×¬O§Ú¥Î¹LªºÃèÀY¨½³Ì§Öªº, ±q³Ìªñ¶ZÖÃ6¤Ø¨ì30¤Ø¶}¥~Àþ¶¡§¹¦¨.

I will add that, as much as you can tell from the D2H's LCD, Bokeh is STUNNING! It looks
on par with the 70-200/VR, especially on the flower shots at MFD at f/4. The shots LOOKED
sharp, but again it was impossible to tell on just the LCD.
§ÚÁÙ­n¥[¤@ÂI´N¬O, ¦Ü¤Ö±qD2HªºLCD¤W¬ÝBokehÕa¤H¦a¥X¦â! ¬Ý°_¨Ó©M70-200VR¤@¼Ë, ¯S§O¬O¦bF4©çÄá
ªº¤@¨Çªáªº­I´º. ¤ù¤l¬Ý°_¨Ó«Ü¾U, ·íµM±qLCD¤W¬Ý¤£¤F¨º¤\²Ó.




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